First Time With Metz Flash

[Nikonfreak]

Originally Posted by KellyL

Poor Sophia looks like she gained some weight from the time we left the grove to the time we got to the church. I told her not to eat those french fries.

One thing that bothers me are the shadows on the front of the dress.

If there's a live body (no offense to Sophia) in the dress, it's not going to be wrinkled up on the front (filled in). The shadows are from the dress itself being thrown by the Metz angle of the flash to subject.

If you change the position of the main flash, as long as you don't change the distance you should be fine on exposure that you metered. (The arc) You could move move it to 30 degrees and that would get more light on the front.

That's looking awesome!

Metering is something I need to work on myself. I need to get a better meter rather than just the Sekonic 308s but it's done ok for everything I've used it for but for this type of stuff I'd like a better meter.

Julio

[KellyL]

Julio...yes, I know about that meter! Now that my job is becoming more demanding, I am moving up to a more professional meter. Now that I see what metering can do for your photographs, I am sold, sold, sold. My new meter, Sekonis 758 will arrive tomorrow along with my new 30D.

[kgphoto]

Kelly,

Manual on flash is, as you say, full dump of power unless you set it to 1/2, 1/4, etc. power. You adjust amount of flash power(f:stop at subject) by moving it closer and farther away, neutral density filters, light modifiers and the variable power settings, if your unit has them. Or a combination of the above.

On a portrait session, if you don't move, the light doesn't change. You can use the zoom to compose rather than move the whole camera and tripod. (You are using a tripod aren't you? )

On a wedding or other event, you set the power to where you get the fastest recycle time. Then you shoot only at 5 feet, 7.5 feet, 10 feet and 15 feet away. That would get you f:11, f:8, f: 5.6, f: 4.0 with a 100 ISO setting and a unit with a guide number of 80 or set at 1/4 power to give you an 80 guide number. You will find with a little practice, you will be able to judge and fall into these distance without even thinking of them. It is like driving a stick shift automobile.

As you remember Guide number divided by distance gives you the f:stop to use. GN/Dis = f:stop. You need to test and calibrate the camera, flash and meter to find the actual starting f:stop. I make a small chart for the back of the strobe to remind me of these and a few other setting.

Once you have calibrated your meter, camera, lens and flash, set the flash on a stand and your meter on a stand 10 feet apart and measure the flash. You should get 8.0 if it is a guide number 80 flash. 11.0 if it is a 110 guide number flash and so on.

Now to use this info for fill flash, if you want to shoot at f:8.0 and that is your outside ambient light, put your flash either the distance required to give you 4.0 (15 feet) or adjust the power setting while metering with your meter, to give you 4.0. Using pocket wizards will allow you to set your tripod with the on camera flash at the picture taking position and then walk to the subject and meter since the Sekonics have the trigger module available. You could get an extra cheapy chinese flash sync so you don't have to plug and unplug your cords. That will avoid fatiguing the flash connector cords.

Using auto on a flash is a method to reduce the amount of metering and stuff you have to do. The only problem is that the sensor is too easily tricked and it doesn't tell you until it is too late. As a pro, you are expected to be able to get the technical part right. It is a given. Note that on motion pictures, they don't focus a camera, they pull a tape and set the focus for that distance. There must be a reason!

Originally Posted by KellyL

Kirk,

Now that I have experimented enough with Mark's technique, I am ready to try yours.

Now, my assignment today is to begin working with the Metz in manual. I now you have been preaching this...so now I will give it an attempt.

What I couldn't understand is that manual on the Metz is strictly that...manual. So setting it at M gives the full blast of light capable by the Metz. If I am understanding correctly what I should be working on, then I would adjust the Metz manual until I got the reading I wanted. For example, I set the Metz at ISO 100, manual, and then take a reading. If I am after a reading of f/5.6, and the Metz on Manual produces f/16, then I would step down the Metz on manual three stops (setting it at M 1/. I am just doing this theoretically in my mind...don't have one of my flash units upstairs to look at it right now). I would use this setting because 1/8 of the Metz full power will allow me to get the meter reading I desire.

It would seem to me that setting the Metz on manual while attached to the camera would be inviting disaster...when heat of the moment shots are necessary. Constantly chimping shots based upon manual exposure from the Metz would become insane, theoretically speaking, and I would miss many possibilities for correctly exposed images.

What say ye?

[KellyL]

Okay Kirk, my head just spun around on my neck and I spewed green split pea soup while my eyes crossed.

I am going to have to get exorcised and reread what you wrote because it is a trifle above my head right now. I am not saying that I won't be able to understand it, but as I was reading pretty soon it started sounding like shlipink distormka bilpadinsta mishooka bloelprap.

Thanks for not giving up on me and pushing me to understand things at a greater depth.

[kgphoto]

Have some breakfast and read it again. Best thing to do is put the meter and the flash on two stands and take some readings. the stands keep the aiming constant and allow you to measure distances more accurately.

Also take it in small bites, the info, not the food, wolf that.

Do the basic thing first and get more sophisticated as you familiarity increases.

[Max@Home]

Originally Posted by KellyL

My new meter, Sekonic 758 will arrive tomorrow along with my new 30D.

...so a 30D it is wise choise

...& don't forget to have some fun with it, somewhere along the way!

...€0.02...



Max@Home

[keithallenlaw]

Originally Posted by Max@Home

duh ...a wireless transmitter that connects to your synch-port and a wireless receiver that connects to your Metz.

A lightstand and bracket as shown above.

Shoot-through umbrella?

....€0.02...

Kindest regards,

Max@Home

Wow Max...My apologies. The dumb ones are the ones who don't ask questions, at least I did, and besides I know that. I was asking brand specifics.

I come here for help and to learn, not belittlement. Just say so and
I'll leave quietly...

[KellyL]

Keith, I am using the wireless transmitters I purchased on eBay for $29.00. Each set comes with a transmitter and a receiver. So far they have worked well. To hook the Canon up for one of the transmitters, you would need to have some accessories, and according to what I have read, by Max, they can be a tad bit expensive.

[KellyL]

Here is the radio unit I purchased. eBay: Digital Radio Slave Flash Trigger /16 Channel Wireless (item 140131764110 end time Jul-02-07 10:15:15 PDT)

[keithallenlaw]

Originally Posted by KellyL

Here is the radio unit I purchased. eBay: Digital Radio Slave Flash Trigger /16 Channel Wireless (item 140131764110 end time Jul-02-07 10:15:15 PDT)

Gratefully thankfully.

So if the 580 to the Metz approach is a "tad bit expensive" (even though I already
have a 580) ...am I better off with a pair of 45 Mezt's?

[KellyL]

Keith, I went with two Metz flashes for one reason, I was able to purchase an older, nondigital version on eBay for $225.00 from a person residing here in Illinois. I have tested it and it works. Since Mark McCall has promoted them so heavily, I thought perhaps I could get into some creative lighting with both flashes.

I also own a 580, but know very little about using it off camera. I know it would require accessories, and given that so many folks have complained about the inconsitencies of the 580ex, I decided not to explore those options. I really can't advise you on this, as I am not qualified.

[Max@Home]

Originally Posted by keithallenlaw

Wow Max...My apologies. The dumb ones are the ones who don't ask questions, at least I did, and besides I know that. I was asking brand specifics.

I come here for help and to learn, not belittlement. Just say so and
I'll leave quietly...

...ooops... sometimes it DOES get lost in the translations!

I am very sorry if this came over belittle-ling, that was never my intention...

What I meant to emphasize is that after you get the camera and flash with the right, 'standard' synch ports/sockets, *any* brand wireless transmitter/receiver can be used, from the el cheapo's from China from EBay to the more expensive pocket wizards...

Again, apologies are fully on me...

...€0.02 and my kindest regards...

Max@Home

[kgphoto]

Keith,

I have always preferred a systems approach to anything. So I would recommend all flashes be the same, then you will know how they operate and how they perform and you will have interchangeable parts if you get into trouble with one of them.

This means they will work the same and have the same color balance, etc. Best if they are the same age as well.

The 580 has some issues. The Version 2 is much better and I would consider having one of those for the occasional happy snaps using on camera flash. The Metz 58AF is probably a better "professional" on camera flash, if that is what you are looking for.

The Metx 76 is even more amazing and is something I am considering. I currently am trying to make my old flash systems work, until I can afford to replace them. I have Vivitar 283' and 285's and Norman 200B's. The Norman's are my pro's and the Vivitar's, my convenients.

[br32124]

I have been watching this thread with great interest as I have a Nikon D100 and Fuji S2 also a Metz 45 CT4 and 3 nikon speedlights SB24,25,28DX. I am having problems balancing my fill with dark and bright backgrounds with the subject in the shade. If I average meter for the ambient bright background, (usually Green foilage), I do not have enough power to light the subject. If I meter for the darker background also green, I blow out the white dress/person's face. I am using TTL on the Nikon

I am having a mental block after years of film. If I get 1/60 at F8 when metering the dark background and the camera wants to record it as middle gray, should I stop down to F11 to make it record the right color/tone? I am not explaning this very well, but I hope you get my drift.

Sorry if I hijacked the thread. Please move if necessary.

[KellyL]

You did not hijack this thread! I am here to learn and there are many people willing to share their expertise. I need to learn anything and everything. I have not had time to practice and will be waiting to hear responses to your post.

[kgphoto]

br32124,

Yes.

That is the short answer. The "real" answer is: It depends.

The real technique is to measure all the values and if they can fall in the contrast range, shoot. If not either add or subtract light from your subject (smaller and easier to control than a whole background),to bring it into the range.

A hand held meter is really the way to go. There are very many low cost ones available, so there is really no excuse not to have and use one, if you are serious about getting control and good quality.

[Mike_e]

Originally Posted by br32124

I have been watching this thread with great interest as I have a Nikon D100 and Fuji S2 also a Metz 45 CT4 and 3 nikon speedlights SB24,25,28DX. I am having problems balancing my fill with dark and bright backgrounds with the subject in the shade. If I average meter for the ambient bright background, (usually Green foilage), I do not have enough power to light the subject. If I meter for the darker background also green, I blow out the white dress/person's face. I am using TTL on the Nikon

I am having a mental block after years of film. If I get 1/60 at F8 when metering the dark background and the camera wants to record it as middle gray, should I stop down to F11 to make it record the right color/tone? I am not explaning this very well, but I hope you get my drift.

Sorry if I hijacked the thread. Please move if necessary.

Hi, If I may suggest that you pick out one flash for your main and then assign the other two accordingly. After this go strictly manual and make your own charts using distance as the only variable (use a single power setting) to change aperture settings. As an example; 1/2 power @ 10 feet = f4, @ 8 feet = f5.6 or whatever it works out to.

As good as the Nikon speedlights are they are still going to be a little inconsistent and going strictly manual will give you perfect exposure for which ever aperture you choose. Then you only have to worry about using your shutter speed to to adjust for the background. A gray card and your camera's meter off of that should do nicely for the background.

Hope this helps

mike