Looking for outdoor light setup.. Too many choices.. Which one?

[Rain Lily]

Originally Posted by checks202

Fair enough then; The only thing suggested to me is the AB range. I just pointed out the difference and what would make me go Elinchrom.
Over shopper? You mean spending more than what one needs to spend? I didn't think paying that little bit extra for some durability and extra features would be frowned upon.

Thanks for your reply however. Doesn't really get me any closer to purchasing a kit at all.

You seem like a wise shopper to me, and I think you are being treated a bit unfairly. Hang in there on this thread, and maybe you'll get some more responses. Brooks is really knowledgeable about lighting, maybe he will chime in, and you might check out some of Frank Doorhof's work on the Fashion forum, and see if you can find out the different kinds of lighting he takes on location.

Sorry to be no more help that that, but I tend to shoot with natural light or sometimes speedlight/softlighter combo. Good luck.

[Steven G Webb]

No, over-shopping is like over thinking. You've made your mind up. You will also find a negative about everything suggested. You dismissed my suggestion of Photogenic Pro Lighting all together, by the way. And this, "Over shopper? You mean spending more than what one needs to spend? I didn't think paying that little bit extra for some durability and extra features would be frowned upon." Over-shopping isn't over-paying.

[Rain Lily]

Geez, Steve, calm down. Maybe the guy just missed your post. Wow.

[Steven G Webb]

Originally Posted by Rain Lily

Geez, Steve, calm down. Maybe the guy just missed your post. Wow.

I'm calm and I wasn't disrespectful. I fail to see what prompted this chastisement.

Steve

[Rain Lily]

Originally Posted by Songman45

I'm calm and I wasn't disrespectful. I fail to see what prompted this chastisement.

Steve

Well - you're being judgmental and rather rude. I've seen nothing the OP has done to prompt this kind of treatment.

Just sayin. Not gonna spend a lot of time on this - but it just seems like you should step back and let it go. Your posts aren't coming across as friendly to the OP. In my opinion, at least.

Edited to add - nothing personal in the 'chastisement', as you call it. I'm just tired of all the attitude all over the Camel these days. We aren't acting very 'community-minded' lately. Me included, at times.

[checks202]

Well back on topic I say.

Honestly I did overlook you mention of Photogenic. I must say they look like they are built like a bloody tank. Which is great however BH has very little range of them?
That can be concerning because if BH has little stock how will Australia be for lamps/lights etc?

Honestly am I asking too much. Elinchrom aren't that spectacular I'm sure. Why is it I can't find any brand that is able to match their specs at a comparable price?

I'm not locked on Elinchrom in fact I've only used Bowens in the studios I have rented. If it wasn't for their over priced batt packs I may of gone that route.

What I see:

- Profoto look fantastic but the price hike over Elinchrom.
For what and yes that is a honest question.
- Broncolor is just stupidly priced. Seems like a brand some people with too much money buy for that extra E pen*s.
- Bowens have a amazing range of modifers and the most copied.They have a fair price but why the batt packs are expensive compared to other brands such as Profoto/Elinchrom has me beat.
- AB has a far less aesthetic appeal about them. (Which really means jack as I want something that does the job not just look sexy). They seem to target the bang for buck category well. I'm just shy of them partially because of the lack of features and my bad experience in the past with generic modifiers.
- Photogenic look like their built like a tank but it's just their limited range on the BH page that has me somewhat concerned asI can image if it's limited in the US they'd be as rare as hens teeth in Australia no doubt.

Well I'm not going to rush into this. I am not going to lock my mind on Elinchrom.
I would love to hear of a brand that is comparable to Elinchrom range.

Not sure what else to say.

Edit:
Knew I forgot something..

I had a look at Frank Doorhof's work. That is exactly what I'd like to get into and is pretty much what I'd use the lights with. However there are times I'd like to have more background light than that. Love to hear what he uses and possibly what he recommends.

Edit 2:

Just noticing Norman which looks very nice.

[photolando]

There is no AB3200. That is the White Lightning line of Paul Buff and most who have ever owned them will tell you they are some of the best built lights out there. I'd put them up against any line of mono lights for quality and durability.

And just because you buy a certain brand does not limit you to "their" modifiers. I use my Chimera softboxes on my AB units as well as my Speedotrons. Just need to right speedring for the light.

[Brooks]

Originally Posted by Rain Lily

... Hang in there on this thread, and maybe you'll get some more responses. Brooks is really knowledgeable about lighting, maybe he will chime in, and you might check out some of Frank Doorhof's work on the Fashion forum, and see if you can find out the different kinds of lighting he takes on location.

Sorry to be no more help that that, but I tend to shoot with natural light or sometimes speedlight/softlighter combo. Good luck.

I'm not sure you want my opinion on this stuff!

I don't like monolights. Too much weight on the end of the stand or boom. I don't care for Alien Bees either because of their low power flash and dim modeling lamps, weak attachments for modifiers and cheap plastic construction. . So you might want to go with the flow here and pass on my advice.

On the other hand, if you do want a different opinion and choice, I like the Speedotron Explorer system. It has real power with a usable 1500ws and 250w modeling lamps. It's a pack and head system which I prefer. I'd buy this kit and get a second battery... Speedotron Explorer 1500 Portable Lighting Kit with 2 850550 B&H

[Mike_e]

Why not go with Bowens and put together your own battery pack?

I use a deep cycle marine battery and a 1500W pure sine wave inverter for locations; yes it's a load but I've never come close to running out of juice- unless I leave the modeling lights on too long- and I cart in everything anyway.

Depending on what you need you could probably get a 40ah sealed lead acid battery (won't leak under normal use), a 1000w sinewave inverter (2000w peak draw) and put together a bag and a charger for under $300 and shoot all day.

You have to be careful and not put too much current through a SLA when charging it but at it's price point you could easily get two and have a spare. A gel cell battery is more expensive but even more unlikely to leak.

[Ed Shapiro]

There are a few ideas that y’all are passing up- let me help you! This is entirely different approach equipment wise and may save you all kinds of money.

Most lighting equipment that is meant for studio use is not as compatible with outdoor locations, especially beaches. The elements that may exist at beaches and even beach front property can be very hostile for studio flash systems. There is sand, salt-air, high humidity, splashing water, high winds at times among other perils. This is particularly critical to units with external power packs that may have to be placed on the ground or the sand. Even in country-like locations there is moisture, mud, water and sand or gravel that can do power packs in. The connector sockets, and plugs as well as vents are especially vulnerable to theses problems in that the can be entry points for foreign substances to enter you gear. Heat is another enemy of power packs especially if the are black and therefore will absorb lots of heat.

Heads equipped with large modifies have lots of wind resistance and can blow over easily causing immediate damage and disruption of your shoot. You will need heavy duty light stands and some additional weights such as sand bags.

So here’s the quick and dirty method of “synchro-sunlight photography”: Any professional grade on camera strobe will work just fine. I am not writing about the small accessory shoe models- I am talking about pro stuff such as Quantum’s Q Flash units, Lumadyne, Norman, older model Metz units and the like. Theses units have real blasts of power to the tune of 200 to 400 watt/seconds and can be used as direct or modified light sources. Many of theses have shoulder style power packs that deliver fast recycling times and lots of flashes per charge. Some of theses are equipped with auto and TTL settings. The simple procedure is to first calculate the flash only exposure by your guide number or auto flash system. Let’s say it is f/16- set the aperture accordingly. Next- make an exposure reading for the sun light and set the shutter speed for what would be required at f/16. If it is 1/125 sec. set shutter accordingly. You will get a pleasing ratio and a normal background. NOW- if you stop down your shutter speed by one or two stops you will get a higher ratio and the background will appear incrementally darker as you increase the shutter speed. You need to make sure you are working within your camera’s flash synch range. You can manipulate the method by selecting higher or lower flash power as to depth of field issues as well as speed capturing requirements.

You can augment this basic method by taking the strobe off camera or with the use of a second flash. Sunlight is contrasty and sharp so using direct flash in this method will give you compatible lighting. You can use hazy sun light or open shade as you main source but flash fill techniques will become very critical because you do not want to over power the ambient light but match its effect as to contrast In this modified method you can use light modifiers or bare bulb techniques to give you various levels of fill illumination.

In most outdoor situations you will not SEE the effect of the modeling lamps so a unit without theses lamps will do the job without the additional costs of heads with modeling lamps.

I am sure the units you prefer will work- the look pretty decent to me but the may be overkill for the work you are describing. Of course, they can be used out-of-doors in the studio or an indoor location as well.

By the way- The buff folks make the nicest soft boxes I have ever seen- they are tough and assemble in Seconds They also have giant umbrellas as well at very nominal prices and all their heads can easily support theses accessories.

Surprisingly enough, I do not own any Buff gear but I have recommended them to dozens of my students and the are all very happy campers and are turning out fine work. I helped a colleague set up his new studio with a carload of AB gear and the system is working perfectly- top drawer! I am not a sales rep for the company either. Yes, there are lost more sophisticated lighting units on the market but with this stuff you get more bang for your buck.

The above system I have described will work with any popular brand of better equipment but my approach is simple and it enables one to use an easily practicable method leaving you more time to concentrate on composition, pose and expression.

One of my favorite sunlight techniques is to use the late afternoon sun as either a main light or a back light and simply fill in or create portrait lighting patterns with a silver type reflector. This method is very simple and easy in that it requires a minimal load of equipment and what you see is what you get and you don’t need to worry about flash issues such as restriction of shutter speed variations that may effect the synchronization. You can go up and down the aperture and shutter speed ranges to address depth of field and actions stopping properties as you require them. If you decide to use flash in this scenario, you might want to place a warming gel filter on your flash equipment so that you don’t get color crossover, that is a warn highlight area and a cold fill in the shadow and mid-tone areas in the same file. Late day sunlight is significantly warmer in tone than noon time sunlight or electronic flash.


I do theses techniques at weddings all the time with my hand held gear. I may have a late morning wedding ceremony where the bridal party pile out of the church at high noon and the lighting in front of the church is just terrible. I can move the bridal party elsewhere for formals but I want to get all the spontaneous action shots when the emotions are high- right after the ceremony. I am operating in full direct sunlight and get perfectly transparent shadows and achieve the effect of a beautiful sunny wedding day. If I can back light the subjects by changing my position to the sun- all the better. I never get burned out wedding dresses- I do get wonderful trans-illumination in the bride’s veil and kick light in the side of the grooms face. Everything falls into place. On beach shots- swimwear etc., back lighting creates beautiful highlight to enhance the shape of the body.

I hope this helps! Ed