PhotoCamel: Your friendly photo community, with free discussion forums, digital photography reviews, photo sharing, galleries, downloads, blogs, photography contests, and prizes.
Photo of the Week Photo of the Week
 

Go Back   PhotoCamel - Your Friendly Photography Forum > Tools Of the Trade > Lighting Technique

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-25-2012   #1
Dromedary
 
jgunder's Avatar
 
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,490
jgunder strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorjgunder strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorjgunder strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorjgunder strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorjgunder strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorjgunder strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorjgunder strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorjgunder strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorjgunder strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorjgunder strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorjgunder strides over the forum like a knight in shining armor
CamelKarma: 1189819
Editing OK?: No
Default CTO gel

I'm going to get a continuous tone orange gel to use for sunset strobe lighting.

Will shooting the gelled strobe through a white umbrella turn the light back to white? I've never shot using a CTO through a white umbrella.

Thanks,
Josh

__________________
Members don't see ads in threads. Register for your free account today and become a member of PhotoCamel to open up the site's many benefits and features.
__________________
Facebook

Blog
Flickr
500px
Model Mayhem
jgunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2012   #2
Llama
 
Posts: 628
Mike67 strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorMike67 strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorMike67 strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorMike67 strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorMike67 strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorMike67 strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorMike67 strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorMike67 strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorMike67 strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorMike67 strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorMike67 strides over the forum like a knight in shining armor
CamelKarma: 5038057
Editing OK?: Yes
Default Re: CTO gel

No, the umbrella won't add any color to it.
Mike67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2012   #3
Llama
 
nomorspam's Avatar
 
Location: Maine
Posts: 837
nomorspam is a name known to allnomorspam is a name known to allnomorspam is a name known to allnomorspam is a name known to allnomorspam is a name known to allnomorspam is a name known to allnomorspam is a name known to allnomorspam is a name known to allnomorspam is a name known to allnomorspam is a name known to allnomorspam is a name known to all
CamelKarma: 1930
Editing OK?: Yes
Default Re: CTO gel

You're not going to lose any orange but you will lose about 2/3 of a stop of light from the gel and more from the umbrella (depending on size).
__________________
Every photographer in all of history was a horrible photographer for some period of time.
nomorspam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2012   #4
PhotoCamel Supporter DONATED
Photocamel Master
 
zemlin's Avatar
 
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 5,971
zemlin strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorzemlin strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorzemlin strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorzemlin strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorzemlin strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorzemlin strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorzemlin strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorzemlin strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorzemlin strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorzemlin strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorzemlin strides over the forum like a knight in shining armor
CamelKarma: 5772482
Editing OK?: Yes
Default Re: CTO gel

You can also shift your white balance rather than shifting the light color.
zemlin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2012   #5
A professional viewpoint.
 
Ed Shapiro's Avatar
 
Location: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
Posts: 6,594
Ed Shapiro strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorEd Shapiro strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorEd Shapiro strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorEd Shapiro strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorEd Shapiro strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorEd Shapiro strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorEd Shapiro strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorEd Shapiro strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorEd Shapiro strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorEd Shapiro strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorEd Shapiro strides over the forum like a knight in shining armor
CamelKarma: 4899724
Default Re: CTO gel

If the white balance is changed the all over color will shift to a warmer or cooler rendition depending on the adjustment you make in a custom white balance procedure, however, an unfiltered flash unit may prove to be way out of balance when added as a fill light or an off camera light to create a specific lighting pattern. If you want to match late afternoon sunlight, sun-rise or sunset light or even tungsten light with flash there is no doubt that filtration at the light source will be required. In all theses cases there is just too much of a difference in color temperatures to resolve the balance strictly via adjustments in white balance. A CTO gel on your flash lamp head converts 5500K degrees Kelvin to 2900 degrees Kelvin- thatís quite a shift.

My first advice here is to get on the Net and Google ROSCO lighting materials. They are a world wide supplier for lighting control and reflective materials and a well know to the feature film business by directors of photography and in the live theatre business by stage lighting experts. All their materials are totally compatible with the needs of still photographers as to light balancing, special effects, reflector issues, diffusion and scrim material and more. Find the branch nearest you location and send for a catalog and swatch book. There are many dealers and rental houses around the world that cater to the cinematography community that stock theses materials.

In the swatch books you will fine hundreds of colors including a complete line of CTO of various strengths and densities so you can accommodate a range of flash fill balance with just about any natural or artificial light source. For example; Rosco #3407 (Roscosun) is a full CTO gel and 33442 (Half Straw) is a Ĺ CTS. Each swatch is backed up by a leaf of paper indicating its strength, light transmission factor as well as a graph indicating color correction.

You can order theses gels in smaller sheets and large rolls. This enables you to gel most kinds of lights including hot light because many of their materials will not melt or ignite. With the rolls of paper you can gel an entire window to balance incoming daylight to match tungsten interior lighting.

The only way you can neutralize the color effect of a gel is to add another gel of the same strength but from the other side of the color wheel thereby creating neutral density. When the primary light source is bounced or diffused off or through white material, the color will remain but the exposure needs to be adjust to accommodate the loss of light from bouncing, gelling and or diffusing.

I hope this helps.

Ed
__________________
Ed Shapiro - Master Photographer
Ottawa, Canada
edshapiro@sympatico.ca
Ed Shapiro is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2012   #6
F1 Camel
 
jerryph's Avatar
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 3,455
jerryph is just really very very nicejerryph is just really very very nicejerryph is just really very very nicejerryph is just really very very nicejerryph is just really very very nicejerryph is just really very very nicejerryph is just really very very nicejerryph is just really very very nicejerryph is just really very very nicejerryph is just really very very nicejerryph is just really very very nice
CamelKarma: 80660
Editing OK?: No
Default Re: CTO gel

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgunder View Post
Will shooting the gelled strobe through a white umbrella turn the light back to white? I've never shot using a CTO through a white umbrella.
Nope, it stays the same.

Example of using a speedlight with a CTO gel shooting through an umbrella:



The technique is called colour-shifting. I shift the colour one way, set the WB to correct and everything that is not lit by the light, shifts. The CTO warms everything, I correct for it and everything that is not lit, goes very cold, ie: the blue background.

It's one of my favorite "toys". I especially enjoy turning the sky more red or magenta with CTG gels, or push things blue with CTO gels.
__________________
"I know that if I throw enough crap against the wall... SOMETHING has to stick!"
- Zack Arias

"...Bonum certamen certavi, cursum consumavi et fidem servavi..."
jerryph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2012   #7
Dromedary
 
jgunder's Avatar
 
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,490
jgunder strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorjgunder strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorjgunder strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorjgunder strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorjgunder strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorjgunder strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorjgunder strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorjgunder strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorjgunder strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorjgunder strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorjgunder strides over the forum like a knight in shining armor
CamelKarma: 1189819
Editing OK?: No
Default

Thanks guys, and thank you Jerry for the example.

I shoot sunset + strobe all the time and I always have a hard time in post production making it look balanced in temperature. The subject's short side is orange lit from the sun and her broad side is lit cold white from the strobe. When I was younger I liked the look but now I don't anymore. So a CTO is needed.

While its true you can adjust the white balance in post production you won't be able to get the two differing light colors to look the same without a lot of extra work.

I prefer to get it as good as I can in the camera.

Cheers
Josh
__________________
Facebook

Blog
Flickr
500px
Model Mayhem
jgunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2012   #8
F1 Camel
 
Sailor Blue's Avatar
 
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
Posts: 4,162
Sailor Blue strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorSailor Blue strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorSailor Blue strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorSailor Blue strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorSailor Blue strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorSailor Blue strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorSailor Blue strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorSailor Blue strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorSailor Blue strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorSailor Blue strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorSailor Blue strides over the forum like a knight in shining armor
CamelKarma: 190884
Editing OK?: Yes
Default Re: CTO gel

Nothing looks more fake than shooting a portrait using straight unfiltered flash with the sunset behind your subject. The subject looks cold and blue compared to the warm red/yellow sunset.

You can use a reflector to bounce back the sunset colored light onto the subject but then the skin tone looks looks orange and ugly. If you do a WB correction you can get the subject to look better but then you lose the beautiful sunset colors.

The solution is to set the camera white balance to daylight and use a partial CTO gel on the flash. This will light your subject to a higher color temperature than the sunset so they won't look too orange, but it is also lower than the color temperature of straight flash so they don't look cold and blue.

Which partial CTO gel to use depends upon how close you are to sunset. The closer to sunset and the stronger the sunset colors the closer to a full CTO gel you want to use.

Buy a couple of the Roscolux Swatch Books, one to use now and one for the future. Take out the CTO gels of one book, attach gaffer's tape tabs to the ends and put some small tabs of high quality peal-and-stick Velcro hooks on the tabs. Place strips of the peal-and-stick Velcro loops (the soft part) on the sides of your flash. This makes it qasy and quick to change the gels.

8807 Roscolux Swatch Book, Small Sampler of Almost Every Filter - Size: 1.75 x 2.75 (approximate
__________________
--Don--

Canon 7D, Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II, Tamron SP AF28-75mm F/2.8 XR Di, Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM
Nissin Di866, Electra CLASSIC Plus studio strobes & modifiers
Sekonic L-358 Flash Meter, Yongnuo RF-602 Transmitters & Receivers
Dell 20" 2001F (1200x1800) IPS monitor, Samsung SyncMaster 23" F2380 (1920x1280) PVA monitor, Datacolor Spyder3Elite for monitor calibration
Sailor Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2012   #9
Llama
 
Tinstafl's Avatar
 
Location: Valley of Virginia
Posts: 655
Tinstafl strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorTinstafl strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorTinstafl strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorTinstafl strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorTinstafl strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorTinstafl strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorTinstafl strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorTinstafl strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorTinstafl strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorTinstafl strides over the forum like a knight in shining armorTinstafl strides over the forum like a knight in shining armor
CamelKarma: 195164
Editing OK?: Yes
Default Re: CTO gel

I have used gels inside but not outside. I want to thank the OP for starting this and the responses. They were very informative. I have something to try now...
__________________
D4 and D800
Some Nice Glass
John
Tinstafl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012   #10
Llama
 
nomorspam's Avatar
 
Location: Maine
Posts: 837
nomorspam is a name known to allnomorspam is a name known to allnomorspam is a name known to allnomorspam is a name known to allnomorspam is a name known to allnomorspam is a name known to allnomorspam is a name known to allnomorspam is a name known to allnomorspam is a name known to allnomorspam is a name known to allnomorspam is a name known to all
CamelKarma: 1930
Editing OK?: Yes
Default Re: CTO gel

This is one of my favorites from Erica Plummer with a cto on flash (no diffuser) with the WB on Tungsten.

Mia the Ballerina, Oregon Ballet Theater | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


__________________
Members don't see ads in threads. Register for your free account today and become a member of PhotoCamel to open up the site's many benefits and features.
__________________
Every photographer in all of history was a horrible photographer for some period of time.
nomorspam is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

« PhotoCamel - Your Friendly Photography Forum > Tools Of the Trade > Lighting Technique »


Share this topic:

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Messed up WB with Rosco CTO 3/4 gels Skysi Lighting Technique 5 07-21-2008 10:36 PM
Question: Use of CTO and CTB on stobes boywonder27 Lighting Technique 5 06-16-2008 08:08 PM
gel use cappy1927 Photography Talk 2 03-24-2008 02:01 PM
CTO Gels NUM2BIZ Lighting Technique 3 12-02-2007 08:12 PM