Frustrated!!!!!

[BobC164]

I don't shoot Canon either but I would think that on auto any setting you would have changed would be over ridden by the camera and the picture should have come out reasonably well.


When you say it was under exposed were you physically looking at or looking at the histogram. If the histogram is showing a good exposure maybe you need to increase the brightness of the display. Just a thought.

[tfuller317]

Yes I was zoomed all the way out. I didn't think about that affecting my apeture. DUH! The only place to disable the flash is on the dial where you set it to apeture priority, etc.

The "Auto" images were o.k. Definately not at all what I was looking for. I was hoping for a little more clarity. The histogram is showing high on the left and the image is blurred a little. Thinking through this with you guys I possibly should have used my 70-300 instead of my 18-55mm lens. I never know when is the best time to use what lens when.

[Rain Lily]

Originally Posted by Rogue

The kit lens is a 3.5-5.6 which means 3.5 at it's widest and 5.6 zoomed in all the way so I would guess you were zoomed all the way which is why you couldn't open it more than 5.6.

This is what I was trying to say on the Canon forum about your difficulty with the aperture.

[HighMark Adventures]

ok here you go. I was to lazy to write it up myself so I ripped this from the link below. Pretty much what I intended to write.

7) I tried to take a flash photo and the camera wanted a really slow shutter speed. Why?

This occurred because you are trying to take a flash photo in low-light conditions and the camera is in Av (aperture priority) mode or the night PIC (icon) mode if your camera has it.
In Av, night and Tv (shutter speed priority) modes the camera meters for ambient (existing) light and fills in the foreground subject using the flash. It does not assume that the primary light source is the flash, and therefore the shutter speed it sets is the same as it would set if you weren’t using flash at all.
In low light this results in slow shutter photography. If the shutter speed is very long you will, therefore, need a tripod to avoid motion blur during the exposure.
Alternatively you can switch to full auto (green rectangle) or Program (P) mode, which automatically expose for the flash-illuminated subject and not the background. These modes try to ensure that the shutter speed is high enough to let you handhold the camera without a tripod. The drawback of P and basic modes is that photos taken in dimly lit areas usually end up with black or poorly lit backgrounds.


9) I took a flash photo and the background is pitch black or very dark. Why?

This is the flip side of question 7. In P (program) mode and all flash-using PIC (icon) modes except for night mode (if your camera has it) the camera uses the flash as the primary light source for the foreground subject.
If the ambient light levels are low, therefore, the background will turn out very dark. This is because the flash is not illuminating the background and the shutter speed is too short to expose adequately for background areas.
Remember that the light from any battery-powered flash is somewhat limited. You can’t expect a small flash unit to light up the Grand Canyon or Eiffel Tower. You can only reasonably expect it to light up people standing in the foreground or close backgrounds such as room interiors.
To avoid this problem of black backgrounds you will need to take a photo in Av, Tv or M modes, as mentioned in question 7. If the ambient lighting is very low you may need a tripod to avoid motion blur for the time required to expose the background adequately. Using fast film or higher ISO (eg: ISO 800) and wide lens apertures (the smaller the f stop you can get on your lens) will help bring up the background as well.

10) Why does my camera meter in P and Av modes very differently when I have a flash turned on?

That’s how Canon EOS cameras are designed to work. P, Av, Tv and M modes all meter for flash in different ways. See the section on “EOS flash confusion” for details. Here’s the short version, which repeats some of the points made in previous FAQ questions.
Keep in mind that the camera meters for ambient (existing) light conditions and flash illumination independently.
P (program) mode keeps the shutter speed between 1/60 sec and the maximum flash sync speed your camera can handle. It does this so that you shouldn’t need a tripod, even if light levels are low. It then tries to illuminate the foreground using flash.
Av (aperture priority) and Tv (shutter speed priority) modes set the shutter speed or aperture to expose for the existing light conditions correctly. They then fill in the foreground using flash. If light levels are low you will need a tripod to avoid blur.
M (manual exposure) mode lets you set both aperture and shutter speed to be whatever you want. The camera then automatically controls the illumination of the foreground subject using flash.

Flash Photography with Canon EOS Cameras - Part I.

[Rain Lily]

Originally Posted by tfuller317

Yes I was zoomed all the way out. I didn't think about that affecting my apeture. DUH! The only place to disable the flash is on the dial where you set it to apeture priority, etc.

The "Auto" images were o.k. Definately not at all what I was looking for. I was hoping for a little more clarity. The histogram is showing high on the left and the image is blurred a little. Thinking through this with you guys I possibly should have used my 70-300 instead of my 18-55mm lens. I never know when is the best time to use what lens when.

With your 70-300 I think you're only going to get as wide as 4.0. You'd probably be better off using the 18-55 if you are wanting less depth of field.

[HighMark Adventures]

ok here you go. I was to lazy to write it up myself so I ripped this from the link below. Pretty much what I intended to write.
7) I tried to take a flash photo and the camera wanted a really slow shutter speed. Why?

This occurred because you are trying to take a flash photo in low-light conditions and the camera is in Av (aperture priority) mode or the night PIC (icon) mode if your camera has it.
I andn Av, night and Tv (shutter speed priority) modes the camera meters for ambient (existing) light fills in the foreground subject using the flash. It does not assume that the primary light source is the flash, and therefore the shutter speed it sets is the same as it would set if you weren’t using flash at all.
In low light this results in slow shutter photography. If the shutter speed is very long you will, therefore, need a tripod to avoid motion blur during the exposure.
Alternatively you can switch to full auto (green rectangle) or Program (P) mode, which automatically expose for the flash-illuminated subject and not the background. These modes try to ensure that the shutter speed is high enough to let you handhold the camera without a tripod. The drawback of P and basic modes is that photos taken in dimly lit areas usually end up with black or poorly lit backgrounds.


9) I took a flash photo and the background is pitch black or very dark. Why?

This is the flip side of question 7. In P (program) mode and all flash-using PIC (icon) modes except for night mode (if your camera has it) the camera uses the flash as the primary light source for the foreground subject.
If the ambient light levels are low, therefore, the background will turn out very dark. This is because the flash is not illuminating the background and the shutter speed is too short to expose adequately for background areas.
Remember that the light from any battery-powered flash is somewhat limited. You can’t expect a small flash unit to light up the Grand Canyon or Eiffel Tower. You can only reasonably expect it to light up people standing in the foreground or close backgrounds such as room interiors.
To avoid this problem of black backgrounds you will need to take a photo in Av, Tv or M modes, as mentioned in question 7. If the ambient lighting is very low you may need a tripod to avoid motion blur for the time required to expose the background adequately. Using fast film or higher ISO (eg: ISO 800) and wide lens apertures (the smaller the f stop you can get on your lens) will help bring up the background as well.

10) Why does my camera meter in P and Av modes very differently when I have a flash turned on?

That’s how Canon EOS cameras are designed to work. P, Av, Tv and M modes all meter for flash in different ways. See the section on “EOS flash confusion” for details. Here’s the short version, which repeats some of the points made in previous FAQ questions.
Keep in mind that the camera meters for ambient (existing) light conditions and flash illumination independently.
P (program) mode keeps the shutter speed between 1/60 sec and the maximum flash sync speed your camera can handle. It does this so that you shouldn’t need a tripod, even if light levels are low. It then tries to illuminate the foreground using flash.
Av (aperture priority) and Tv (shutter speed priority) modes set the shutter speed or aperture to expose for the existing light conditions correctly. They then fill in the foreground using flash. If light levels are low you will need a tripod to avoid blur.
M (manual exposure) mode lets you set both aperture and shutter speed to be whatever you want. The camera then automatically controls the illumination of the foreground subject using flash.

Flash Photography with Canon EOS Cameras - Part I.

[Rain Lily]

Originally Posted by HighMark Adventures

ok here you go. I was to lazy to write it up myself so I ripped this from the link below. Pretty much what I intended to write.

7) I tried to take a flash photo and the camera wanted a really slow shutter speed. Why?

This occurred because you are trying to take a flash photo in low-light conditions and the camera is in Av (aperture priority) mode or the night PIC (icon) mode if your camera has it.
In Av, night and Tv (shutter speed priority) modes the camera meters for ambient (existing) light and fills in the foreground subject using the flash. It does not assume that the primary light source is the flash, and therefore the shutter speed it sets is the same as it would set if you weren’t using flash at all.
In low light this results in slow shutter photography. If the shutter speed is very long you will, therefore, need a tripod to avoid motion blur during the exposure.
Alternatively you can switch to full auto (green rectangle) or Program (P) mode, which automatically expose for the flash-illuminated subject and not the background. These modes try to ensure that the shutter speed is high enough to let you handhold the camera without a tripod. The drawback of P and basic modes is that photos taken in dimly lit areas usually end up with black or poorly lit backgrounds.


9) I took a flash photo and the background is pitch black or very dark. Why?

This is the flip side of question 7. In P (program) mode and all flash-using PIC (icon) modes except for night mode (if your camera has it) the camera uses the flash as the primary light source for the foreground subject.
If the ambient light levels are low, therefore, the background will turn out very dark. This is because the flash is not illuminating the background and the shutter speed is too short to expose adequately for background areas.
Remember that the light from any battery-powered flash is somewhat limited. You can’t expect a small flash unit to light up the Grand Canyon or Eiffel Tower. You can only reasonably expect it to light up people standing in the foreground or close backgrounds such as room interiors.
To avoid this problem of black backgrounds you will need to take a photo in Av, Tv or M modes, as mentioned in question 7. If the ambient lighting is very low you may need a tripod to avoid motion blur for the time required to expose the background adequately. Using fast film or higher ISO (eg: ISO 800) and wide lens apertures (the smaller the f stop you can get on your lens) will help bring up the background as well.

10) Why does my camera meter in P and Av modes very differently when I have a flash turned on?

That’s how Canon EOS cameras are designed to work. P, Av, Tv and M modes all meter for flash in different ways. See the section on “EOS flash confusion” for details. Here’s the short version, which repeats some of the points made in previous FAQ questions.
Keep in mind that the camera meters for ambient (existing) light conditions and flash illumination independently.
P (program) mode keeps the shutter speed between 1/60 sec and the maximum flash sync speed your camera can handle. It does this so that you shouldn’t need a tripod, even if light levels are low. It then tries to illuminate the foreground using flash.
Av (aperture priority) and Tv (shutter speed priority) modes set the shutter speed or aperture to expose for the existing light conditions correctly. They then fill in the foreground using flash. If light levels are low you will need a tripod to avoid blur.
M (manual exposure) mode lets you set both aperture and shutter speed to be whatever you want. The camera then automatically controls the illumination of the foreground subject using flash.

Flash Photography with Canon EOS Cameras - Part I.

Excellent information. Thanks for posting that.

[Kerbouchard]

Some of your settings or problems don't make sense to me, but I am a Nikon shooter.

How are your outdoor photos turning out? Have you gotten good indoor photos before, like is this a recent problem or something you have never been able to do?

Unfortunately, too many people purchase a DSLR with a kit lens reading about how reviews slobber over their 'low light ability' when in reality, low light pictures are crap, and taking a picture of a still life test subject from a tripod with a high ISO does not demonstrate a camera's low light abilities.

Put simply, a DSLR is not magic, much less an entry level DSLR like you purchased. The $7K+ models are magic, but we're not talking about those.

For you and in your situation, assuming you are getting good shots outdoors and poor shots indoors, you need to do a few different things. If you are trying to take pictures of objects that are moving, you need an external flash, period. A fast lens is not the answer and never will be. It is a compromise just like anything else in photography. A lens with "IS" or "VR" or "OS" or whatever you want to call it is not the solution either. It can help, but it's no substitute for light.

The alternative solution is to turn on every light in the house you can, pump up the ISO, pop up your flash, put some tissue paper over the flash, and live with the fact that your keeper rate is going to be relatively low. Turning on every light in the house isn't necessarily to help with your exposure, but to help your camera focus. You can also buy drop lights from home depot relatively cheap and even get daylight balanced bulbs so as not to mess up your white balance. You can also take an old box and paint it white or silver or use the foam out of a box that something like a TV came in and use it as a reflector to get a little bit more light to your subject.


If what you are shooting is sitting still, or can be made to sit still, you have a much easier solution. Use a tripod or a makeshift tripod. You can always set your camera on a banister, rail, counter, etc, and let the shutter speed go as slow as it needs to. Like you mentioned, 1/8 of a second is not handholding territory.

As far as long term solutions, a bounced flash is the cheapest, and a flash with umbrellas or soft boxes will yield the best results. Sorry, but there is a reason that even the cheapest studios you walk into(like Sears) have a couple thousand dollars in lighting and lighting modifiers. It is to get a consistent, well lit, photo at least 10% of the time.

Sorry, but after you learn the basics, the only real secrets left out there are:
Great shots are made with great lighting or great luck; and
Great photographers don't show people the 200 lousy shots it took to get the 1 special one.

[tfuller317]

Originally Posted by Rogue

The kit lens is a 3.5-5.6 which means 3.5 at it's widest and 5.6 zoomed in all the way so I would guess you were zoomed all the way which is why you couldn't open it more than 5.6.
You may have disabled the flash (there is a button to disable/enable the flash but I'm not sure where it is on a Rebel).

Originally Posted by Rain Lily

Excellent information. Thanks for posting that.

Yes thank you so much for posting this. This along with the other helpful info has helped me tremendously! I love this site. I knew that I would be able to get a solution or a direction at least.

[mjp321]

What lens are you using? You say its maximum fstop is 3.5, but wouldn't go lower than f5.6? I'm thinking it must be a variable aperture zoom lens and you were zoomed in most of the way, thereby nor permitting you to go lower than f5.6 (if it's an f3.5-f5.6). When shooting in low light conditions with these types of zooms, you cannot zoom in and get the maximum fstop, so your images may be severely underexposed. You have to stay wide with your lens (zoomed back) when shooting under very low light. Doesn't your fstop or shutter speed flash on and off in your viewfinder telling you that you don't have enough light? Your flash not firing is another problem. Check in your menu to make sure that you have the flash enabled. The Auto mode will bypass that setting and the flash will usually work no matter what, but if you're used to shooting in aperture priority or shutter priority, I think you need to check to see if your onboard flash is enabled in the menu. When shooting "semi-auto" in low light without flash, I always choose shutter priority. I'd rather have a non-blurred photo with a short depth of field than a badly blurred image. One is acceptable while the other is not.