Sunrise, Sunset.....

[Patrish]

Wally and I were in Montego Bay, Jamaica in February. The sunrise from our patio was beautiful, so I would try to wake him up. "Just take a picture," he would mumble as he pulled the pillow over his head. So I did. The sunsets were lovely, too! Please give me the benefit of your thoughts, tell me what's wrong, and what I should have done differently. Thanks!

[Padre]

The light and color is very good in the 1st. You could tweak the levels just a bit to make it a bit more dynamic. In both the 1st and 2nd the horizon is fairly close to being in the center which, in some images, can leave the eye going back and forth trying to identify a subject. It bothers me a bit more in the 2nd. It leaves me asking what the primary subect is, the boats or the sunset. For the 3rd image, it tells a story. For me it is a bit to saturated but certainly has a lot of mood. Looks like a wonderful place to be!

[Not4wood]

Patrish,

The only thing I can see is that you didn't bring me along with you to carry your bags...

Seriously, what program are you using for your Color Management?
I have a link here for Smart Curves that is a free plug-in for a lot of programs, give me a sec... SmartCurve Its a great one to use. While your reading the instuctions you can practice on some shots by using the Auto button and then going on from there. Right now, I am using the Auto Botton just to see how my adjustments can compare and I'm about to go to the eye droppers for individual stuff. A very well rounded plug-in for the things that we do.

Your shots are great and I think the first one needs a little bit more detail and contrast by adjusting for shadow details and the last shot needs maybe a little bit increase of something in the darker areas. Maybe drop shadow contrast, you will have to play a bit to see. Did you shoot these originally in Raw??

[Max@Home]

Originally Posted by Padre

It bothers me a bit more in the 2nd. It leaves me asking what the primary subject is, the boats or the sunset.

...agree, and maybe this has also to do with the fact that the roofs of two boats are exactly on the horizon-line: placing them a bit above or a bit under that line would have helped in this shot, IMO: 'higher' isn't always possible (or you would have to carry a ladder all the time), but lower almost always is: kneel, lay down...

...just what *I* saw, *my* €0.02 worth...

Kindest regards!

Max@Home

[Goofup]

I'll throw my $.02 worth in too.

The first one, it's tilted. (You knew that was coming). And you got a nice reflection of the sky in the sea. I would work that. There's a bit too much empty sky at the top and empty sea at the bottom. On one hand it's ok to divide the picture in half when there's a reflection, but I'd be tempted to crop the sea off about the beginning of the reflection and then only some sky so that the horizon doesn't quite split it in half. Personal choice. I do know that it's a bit flat, and you want to bring that sunset out a bit. Try brightness +2, contrast +40, and saturation +10.

Number 2, I like this one (!), but it's tilted. The horizon is also splitting the picture in half. If it were mine, I'd probably just crop out the top bright part of the sky. This will move that horizon up and concentrate on the boats more.

The third one is really cool, but it's just too dark to make out the details of the dockside cafe. Use your shadow/highlight and lighten the shadows about 25% and then sharpen it just a bit more and you got it!

[Patrish]

Brent, thanks for your suggestions. A lot of times I will look at a picture and think "Oh...that's nice." When I read the comments, I go back and look at it again and I see how it could be made to look better. And so it is with your suggestions.

Mark, I am using Photoshop CS2 for the Mac. Looks like SmartCurves is a PC-only application. It also looks like I should be able to do the same thing with CS2. I often use AutoCurves (or auto anything else) but if auto doesn't help, I still make mistakes when I try to make it look better.

Max, thanks. >...kneel, lay down...
Yes, now that I look at the picture through your eyes, I understand what you are saying. And by the way, Your €0.02 worth is worth more than my 2¢!

Hey, Goofup, always good to see you! I need to figure out what I'm doing wrong with the straightening tool because, believe it or not, I DO use it, and a lot of straightening goes on before I upload pictures. (If you saw the originals you would probably go into cardiac arrest.)

As soon as time allows, I'll back to these pictures and work on them, using your suggestions. Thanks so much for talking the time to help me learn and work harder.

I have a question concerning colors as I see them on my monitor. There's Photoshop color management, and monitor color management. We have one laptop and 2 desktops, and the colors vary some on each of the monitors. What might look reddish on one looks orangeish on another. Then there's the display/resolution size which also makes pictures look different. So I'm wondering if there are "standards" that most photographers use. Thanks again, all.

[New England Moments]

Hi Patrish!!

Ok, here I go... ( Oh Brother here he goes )

Shot #1......... I LIKE IT.... and I think you know me, and my feelings about Sunrise/ Sunset Shots lol... but Sooooo Glad to see you just play with the sky color and omit the Ball..
I see the Good Dr. Goofup nailed you on the tilt lol... and as usual, he's right lol.. I think on the crop, I personally would take some off of the sky.. I say this because, above the cloud line , the sky is basically the same shade of blue.. but a crop on the bottom, I feel disturbs the Beautiful shades of Blue, leading to the reflection..
However.... lol, the crop I suggest puts that horizon pretty close to the Rule Breaking Thirds, almost Dead Center... but think you might get away with it on this one..

The Second Shot is also nice, but going with Padre on this one...The Boats make a great window dressing , but it is almost like a split screen, with the horizon line...

The main show on this one is HIGH in the sky, so backing off some on the lens , I doubt would have helped..

Last Shot... Ohhhh theres that ball, say no more lol...

Patrish, LOVE the First Shot, and No Bows or Fancy Ribbons on this Critique lol!! That first one just needs a few tweeks here and there, a crop, and, by the by, Have you ever looked into Frames , you know put an edge around this to hold the Shot in, I think that alone would make a big difference!!

[Patrish]

Please look again at picture 3 and tell me if it passes inspection. I tried to incorporate everyone's advice, and I sharpened it because in an earlier post from Dr. Goofup he mentioned that almost all photos need to be sharpened. By the way, I feel like I'm back in college (and at my age, that's not a bad way to feel!)

[Goofup]

You did good! There's a lot more detail brought out of the shadows and you got rid of that glowing ball. Nice job.

[New England Moments]

Well since you feel as though you are back in school, I give you a ( A ) on the redo !!
Mucho Better!!! and , well, its' just me on the Big Ball, but A+ !! No Distraction Now for me..

The whole shot now has a total different mood for me. a much Warmer Feel.. just brings out the ambience of mood... A little Wine , a little sunset, nice surroundings...!!

Two Atta Girls, and a Thumbs up for this one!

[Not4wood]

I agree, a truely beautiful, ambience and moody shot. I like the candles that are glowing on the tables as well.

[Goofup]

Ok, so far, so good. Now let's talk about that boat and sunrise picture. I mentioned before what (I thought) was wrong with it so here's how (I would) fix it.

First, I crop off almost all that glowy part of the upper sky to move that horizon up from center. Next we need to level it. I know you been working on "straightening" but it's really easy:
* Pick the Ruler tool (under the eyedropper, keep hitting "I" and it will show up).
* Click and drag a line along the horizon (the waterline where it meets the trees). Hint: for vertical lines hold down the Ctrl key while drawing the line.
* Image/Rotate Canvas/Arbitrary.
* A dialog box already filled in for you pops up. In this case mine said .99 degrees CW (clockwise).
* Just hit OK!
* Now you'll need to crop it again to get rid of the edges of the canvas.

The only thing left is it's a bit noisy. Filter/Noise/Reduce Noise...
Stength 9
Preserve Details 60%
Reduce Color Noise 50%
Sharpen Details 10%

Not enough. No problem, let's run it again, same settings, but Sharpen Details 20%

Try that and see what you think.

[Patrish]

Oh, Goofup...you're not going to let me off the hook yet, are you. Thanks so much for providing the steps which helped a lot. I was able to follow them all, except for when you saw .99 degrees CW, I saw XY WH and A. But I think I understand the straightening process more. (I was trying to straighten the actual line itself, instead of following an object in the picture.) I chose Sharpen Details 20%, and I cloned out the small rowboat on the left which didn't seem to add anything. It looks much better to me. Am I there yet? I can't tell you how very much I appreciate the suggestions from you and everyone else who has been trying to help me through this learning process.

[Not4wood]

Dr Goofup,

Very nicely done. I think I remembered hearing that Patrish was using CS3. Most of those I guess I could use in Elements 5. Would you think the numbers of the corrections would also hold up in Elements?? I would think so, but I am first learning Elements and trying to get some of these numbers down as a starting off point with/for setting good work habits.

Patrish,

Great job. I really like what you've done with the shot via the Doctors instructions.

[Goofup]

She's using CS2 for the Mac. The straightening instructions were for Windows CS3, but obivously she figured it out and they are almost identical. As for the noise figures, it just depends on the picture. I just messed around and came up with those figures. The noise reduction in PE or CS leaves a bit to be desired, that's why I ran it twice. Also, FYI, the "jpeg artifact remover" is also pretty bad. I'm reading a book by Dave McClelland on CS3 right now and he recommends that if you use the jpeg artifact remover, do it by itself- turn all the other sliders to 0. Haven't really tried it for myself yet though so can't give you a first-hand report if it really works or not.

Patrish: nice job. You got us now concentrating on the boats and the lovely golden water, and the boats form a nice triangle which helps with the compsition. Glad you like it.