New e-3 somewhat strong rumor- new sensor

[Raist3d]

E3 Info from China: Olympus SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Supposedly a new one L-CMOS. We'll see. This is *supposedly* from a presentation from Olympus in China. The post has an original link to it.

What do I think? Well I think it's possible, but I would be mighty surprised it's not Matsushita.

- Raist

PS: The camera apparently will be called E-3 indeed.
PSS: The 12-60 will be its kit lens and body only or with kit will be positioned *higher* than the Nikon D200 body or with its kit.

[Jonathanp]

WOOT!

Best news all day. I was getting really bummed out that we were just going to see a new E-510. Thanks for the link!

Originally Posted by Raist3d

E3 Info from China: Olympus SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Supposedly a new one L-CMOS. We'll see. This is *supposedly* from a presentation from Olympus in China. The post has an original link to it.

What do I think? Well I think it's possible, but I would be mighty surprised it's not Matsushita.

- Raist

PS: The camera apparently will be called E-3 indeed.
PSS: The 12-60 will be its kit lens and body only or with kit will be positioned *higher* than the Nikon D200 body or with its kit.

[Paul Shields]

Interesting link Raist . I've said on a few other occasions that I wouldn't have been so happy if they just used the same sensor as on the E-410/510. Not that I think the sensor is not good in those cams, but I think the flagship should be pushing the boundaries a bit so hopefully this is something a bit more radical, and more in the tradition of Olympus. Interesting times it seems .

[Raist3d]

Originally Posted by Paul Shields

Interesting link Raist . I've said on a few other occasions that I wouldn't have been so happy if they just used the same sensor as on the E-410/510. Not that I think the sensor is not good in those cams, but I think the flagship should be pushing the boundaries a bit so hopefully this is something a bit more radical, and more in the tradition of Olympus. Interesting times it seems .

I actually got some info that still points to the same sensor. So I am really inclined to think it's going to be the same sensor. Keep in mind a different DAC or a more careful selection of the same sensor amongst the sensors (stricter tolerances) will yield better quality.

- Raist

[Paul Shields]

Originally Posted by Raist3d

I actually got some info that still points to the same sensor.

- Raist

I'm interested in this new info. Any references to it?

[Raist3d]

Originally Posted by Paul Shields

I'm interested in this new info. Any references to it?

Many people died for it, it's all I can say. We'll see what happens soon enough. I still wouldn't rule out a new sensor but I really doubt it. I am counting on something other than the sensor to boost the quality, but this last tidbit is my "hunch" which could be wrong.

- Raist

[dougjgreen]

Originally Posted by Raist3d

Many people died for it, it's all I can say. We'll see what happens soon enough. I still wouldn't rule out a new sensor but I really doubt it. I am counting on something other than the sensor to boost the quality, but this last tidbit is my "hunch" which could be wrong.

- Raist

Everything in my experience having worked in the semiconductor industry in the area of digital imaging is telling me that what we are going to get is the same sensor, probably bin selected for best noise response, and probably augmented in software for higher sensitivity and/or dynamic range to take advantage of the the better performance of the bin-selected sensors. I would bet that this is one of the major reasons that the high end body is significantly later than the E-410 and E-510 - it will take them several months to get a sufficient number of the better bin-grade sensors to bin out from the supply that they are getting for the less expensive bodies production runs. On a continuous basis, they could probably expect 3-5% of the sensors to bin out at a minimum of a full f-stop better than their nominal sensitivity/noise spec, which is probably more than adequate for an ongoing run rate - but not adequate for the initial spike that they will surely see at the beginning of the E-P1 lifetime due to pent-up demand. Hence the delay to build up a stockpile of the better bin-out sensors.

[Paul Shields]

Interesting analysis Doug. I'm a puzzled about the 'bin-selected' comments. Can there be such a difference in quality from sensors manufactured from the same wafer? I guess in the semiconductor business we know that CPUs can have variances in performance (i.e. clock speed), but does this relate also to image sensors?

[Raist3d]

Originally Posted by Paul Shields

Interesting analysis Doug. I'm a puzzled about the 'bin-selected' comments. Can there be such a difference in quality from sensors manufactured from the same wafer? I guess in the semiconductor business we know that CPUs can have variances in performance (i.e. clock speed), but does this relate also to image sensors?

Yup. Image sensors are electronic components and as such they can have a great variability. I don't know for sure if it's as huge as Doug said but it's certainly possible. Keep in mind again that there are other things that they can still do- like a better DAC. Finally let's remember the Olympus HDR patent. If (I realize this is a big if though) Olympus implements the HDR patent in the EP-1, then even with the same current sensor we have the camera will have supreme DR. In fact, if they implement that patent, I am ordering one *the same day* I hear about it. That would kill *any* desire I would have for a Fuji SR sensor camera virtually forever.

It will also mean that violating several consequences of the "too good to be true" laws, the Universe will come to collapse into a singularity, as the perfect camera (in my eyes anyway) will finally be produced. The last few times that happened was when Nikon introduced the D200, Pentax introduced the K10D, and Olympus introduced the e-510... but none of them are perfect, thus, we continue to exist

Olympus could easily get an extra 2-3 stops with that patent.

- Raist

[Paul Shields]

I like your analysis Raist . I hope it doesn't mean the end of the world as we know it. 2-3 stops with the HDR patent, and a further 3-4 stops with the built-in IS would be wonderful and would compensate a lot for the relatively small sensor.

I wait with bated breath .

[Raist3d]

Originally Posted by Paul Shields

I like your analysis Raist . I hope it doesn't mean the end of the world as we know it. 2-3 stops with the HDR patent, and a further 3-4 stops with the built-in IS would be wonderful and would compensate a lot for the relatively small sensor.

I wait with bated breath .

To be clear though I think we won't see the HDR patent this time around :-( But if it happens... well... better do those things you always put off, and tell your loved ones how much you love them as the universe is coming to an end

- Raist

[dougjgreen]

Originally Posted by Paul Shields

Interesting analysis Doug. I'm a puzzled about the 'bin-selected' comments. Can there be such a difference in quality from sensors manufactured from the same wafer? I guess in the semiconductor business we know that CPUs can have variances in performance (i.e. clock speed), but does this relate also to image sensors?

Well, there can, but most of the variance almost certainly wafer to wafer and wafer lot to wafer lot. Keep in mind that sensors are BIG chips, and it's a mixed signal process (meaning many different layers, and not the largest wafers), so there aren't too many sensors per wafer - so that's lots of different wafers.

[Sidebyte]

I would also expect that if they use the same chip that it also could be multi channeled such as the D200 vs. the same sized Sony chip in many other cameras. Also Oly may have an entirely different engine for the same sized chip for their Pro line.