Hmm interesting 50D...

[Raist3d]

Well, I have to admit, I didn't expect a jump in resolution like that and apparent ISO at the same time, so soon. I think this camera is Canon's answer to Nikon, and in the crossing, hit the E-3 in the head.


I am talking market wise. I don't think the E-3's out there are going to stop working because of this. I have never argued it's the camera. I still think the E-3's are great sans the interface.


Just thinking market wise, someone who wants to buy something new, I would find an E-3 a bit hard to recommend right now. It's when I read the MSRP that I realize, I just couldn't recommend an E-3 like that at that point anymore.


I love the JPEG output of the E-3, but having the picture style editor on the Canon opens a lot of JPEG possibilities. If I was Olympus, and they still care about the E-3 market, I would announce a new rev this Photokina. Otherwise, maybe a shift to u4/3rds will be forced, or the E-3 will fare the same E-1 destiny- a camera that never got quite mainstream while Olympus sold e-420's, e-520's on the lower end.


Of course, I want to make clear, not of this matters for happy E-3 owners, I am just talking about market in general, and new users who would be deciding. Olympus still has the lenses on its side, but I am sure there are good lenses on the Canon side that matched with this would be interesting (they have to be good though to resolve that rez, none of the more 'legacy' or even 'digital early rebel' stuff).


Out of pure market discussion, I would like to hear thoughts. Please keep it civil, as we always have pretty much at PhotoCamel. If you don't like reading the thread just move on. If the thread turns nasty, I may yank it out.


And if I say something "wrong" please hit me in the head with it


- Raist

[Raist3d]

I'll give it to Canon. They officially announce a camera, and it's there at the BeBit or EOS websites the very moment they do.
So, I just decided to take a look at the 4 samples of JPEG they have for the 50D:
Canon EOS 50D - Sample Image 2

Looking at that one, I have to say, and this may sound like I am super Olympus pro biased, but really, I am trying to be objective when I say this- I am not all that impressed.
Look at the part where the mountain range in the distance joins the sky. What do we see... almost the quality of a P&S in color / purple fringing. I don't get it. Or maybe I do- seems like a great camera body screaming for a better lens.
Look at the cows- see all the blurriness and the fringing there.. what's going on.. this is a lens at F8. Maybe it was the wrong day to shoot- with all that haze.
And the ground is just mush. I see now that Canon also will offer three levels of noise reduction + disabled. Maybe at disabled the detail will come out.
Look at the car:

Canon EOS 50D - Sample Image 4

Looks ok. Lots of detail loss, but ok. But look at the right down corner, in the ground... eek, almost P&S quality again.
The girl here:

Canon EOS 50D - Sample Image 1

Looks great, in the typical "Canon colors" way (I only say that for those who love them or hate them. I don't quite like them, but I won't fault them on this discussion for that).
This may sound silly but I really think the E-3 can take with a medium to high grade lens, a much more "vivid" and "there" shot of the landscape and car. If that's how the 50D will perform (I think it's the lenses, not the body, and maybe setting the noise reduction to a high default), I can still find the E-3 more appealing for many situations.

[Paul Shields]

Good on Canon to continue their incremental development of the xxD series. They certainly know how to stretch things out .

I'm personally no way tempted by them. Canon certainly have some advantages with regards to high ISO/low noise, but apart from that I don't see anything there that would tempt me to switch.

I recently picked up the cheapo Zuiko 70-300mm + the EC-20 teleconverter. There would be no way I could get an equivalent 600mm lens (1200mm with EC-20) that still offers AF at f/8 + on the Canon without spending huge amounts of money, and the trick is - it all works fine.

[Raist3d]

I mean, I am really getting past the upgrade-itis. Seriously. Better spend my money on lenses or lights. No use.

My post has to do more about someone looking for a camera and starting from scratch, and how the E-3 can be marketed against it.

I partially disagree that this is just "extending more of the same." Jumping in both ISO and resolution is something that I find quite remarkable. But I will agree that looks like the lenses may not be up to the task in many situations.

A couple of interesting tidbits they added:

- vignetting compensation
- noise reduction- disabled + 3 settings
- super control panel UI.

We can all say these things were in Olympus first, but the truth is, it is irrelevant for someone making a choice, from scratch and actually a benefit to that model.

That said, I am not that impressed by the JPEGS I saw of the 50D, and I think the blame is the lenses. Would be interested to see how it performs at night at high ISO. I wouldn't be interested in buying one because of the size in my case either way.

Olympus should stress marketing wise, the lenses and how they perform.

Marketing wise, whether you switch/don't switch, doesn't seem to affect the fact that higher ISO + 15 megapixels from this model make the $400 USD more expensive E-3 hard to sell against it.

Maybe Olympus would sell roughly the same since those looking for it know what they want on the lens side- or not. I just don't know and I wonder

- Raist

[Lin Evans]

I see they are using the micro-focus adjust like they did on the 1D Mark 3 - a stop-gap for autofocus problems they still haven't fixed.

I'm really disappointed with Canon's autofocus - I've never had so many issues with autofocus in over 40 years of using 35mm platform as I have with my various Canon bodies (D30, 10D, 1D, 1DS, 1D Mark 2, 40D). My Nikon D2XS, Kodak DCS Pro bodies, E3 and Sigma SD9, SD10 and SD14 all have spot-on autofocus. I have to spray and pray with my 40D and "hope" I get one or two sharp in-focus frames out of every 10 or so. My 10D has been "soft" and only my 1D and 1DS have really been somewhat realiable on autofocus and even they let me down.

In looking at these samples I'm seeing soft focus, blown highlights and some CA (probably just soft lenses) in the corners. I can live with the corner softness on a full frame but don't expect to see that on a 1.6x sensor.

I think I'm finished with Canon until they get their act together and produce a body with reliable autofocus like Olympus, Nikon, Sigma, Sony and Pentax.

Lin