Olympus E-3 owners- experience so far?

[Raist3d]

Please post your experience so far with the camera. In some other forum I posted that while I love the colors and overall features, I still find the interface a bit confusing but I still want to give more time to make sure this doesn't fall for me in the "it's more complex but eventually you get used to it and it's faster".

Here's that post:

I love the E-3 at everything it does in general, all the features. But the user interface interface is a mixed bag.


I find the menus well organized and all that, but I think Olympus made some decisions that are a step back from the E-1. Namely:
- small closet to each other buttons. If you are using normal gloves, well, good luck
- some of the key buttons on the left side are all the same, close to each other, no tactile difference. This presents in my opinion two problems:
+ you can't easily blindly get a sense of reference for where your fingers are quickly. It's like some keyboards have a plastic "dot" or concave button.. these are all convex. It's easy to blindly push one thinking you are changing modes when you are changing focus type, etc.
I think I understand what Olympus was trying to do- to get rid of the dial and the "lock" button by using one of the normal dials and having you press a button, it serves as the "lock button." But they should have made the middle button of those three bigger and concave, not convex.
+ the fact that each of these buttons does something different depending on the forward dial or back dial. This makes this choice at least initially and even now confusing for me when I have to snap a shot right away and modify settings according to what I want to shoot.
- I find the front dial difficult to access on a whim to turn it. It seems positioned awkward but I guess this depends on the hand size of each individual
- I have found there's still a bit of lag in some of the settings, in particular changing modes. If you go fast in shutter speed setting or aperture there can be a bit also. This should really have been solved at this level of the market. My Panasonic Lumix FZ20 has zero lag, I have been able to tap my way hyper fast and the camera keeps up. I would expect a $1,700 USD camera to do the same.
- The camera modes are all in a sequence, and because they electronically change with no visible menu (like some of the other settings like ISO/focusing where you can see a menu and move a selection), it can be confusing to go back and forth particularly when you have "my modes" set.
I like the E-3 quite a bit but I find this getting on my nerves a bit. Seems to me a step back from the E-1 and quite frankly, I feel more able to set my e-410 quicker than the E-3 for a lot of the things I do. Or perhaps, maybe as fast as but not as confusing as. I am more confident of the settings I set on the e-410 but on the E-3 I find myself missing this or that ocassionally because of the somewhat more confusing interface of the buttons.


Now, the E-3 like the e-410 has the "super LCD menu" and that would work, except because the camera is big and heavy, and the buttons are software, it just doesn't feel the same way the e-410 does. I find this ironic.


If this continues to bug me, I will probably sell my E-3 and wait for the "next e-510" as I want IS, or maybe keep shooting with the e-410 for a while.
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Please post your experience, keep in mind what works for you may not work for others and vice versa. What works for me may not work for you, what doesn't work for me, may work for you.

- Raist

[Paul Shields]

This reminds me - must add the E-3 to the reviews database .

My take on it - coming from an E-1 I was initially a little disappointed by a few of the compromises when I first picked it up. Just little things like the quality of the dials, the latches and the battery door. I'd still take the E-3 over something like a 5D in terms of build quality, but it's not quite got that 100% pro feel to it that you get with the E-1.

However, Olympus have updated it where it matters. Excellent big bright 100% viewfinder. Useful swivel LCD (I can't see how Live View can be as useful if it's static). Very fast handling compared to the E-1 - though that's just a natural progression due to a few years development in processing. The much more adaptable AF on the E-3 seems like it's a cause of confusion or upset for some, but I've not really had problems with it since the first day when I had it configured incorrectly for the type of shooting I was doing. There is still a lot for me to learn with this AF - almost makes me yearn for the simple 3 point AF of the E-1 . Also with regards to AF - all of my lenses focus faster on the E-3 than on the E-1. Quite noticable, and when using an SWD lens it's as fast as I've experienced with any lens. Let's just hope it doesn't give up accuracy for speed .

RAW files are definitely a stop or two better in noise compared to my E-1 or E-400. I don't like the JPEG processing so much on the E-3 - I need -2 sharpening and -2 contrast to get anywhere near a natural image. The ISO switch I find a bit fiddly to access, but! Now we have auto-ISO with selectable range - as I'm more than happy with ISO up to 800 on the E-3 I just leave it in auto-ISO mode. Higher ISO is usable too, but only when really required.

All in all - a definite improvement over my E-1 in the areas of picture quality and speed. I'd still happily use the E-1 though as it really is the most joyful camera to use and hold. But - we can't stop the march of technology can we.

[edit]
I must admit I wrote my 'review' after only skimming yours Raist. Now I've read yours in detail I find it an interesting take on the E-3, and nicely contrasting to mine. You seem a bit disappointed how fiddly it is to change settings, and I've not really mentioned it. I guess that just shows how people will always react differently depending on where they're coming from. I'm a pretty slow and methodical photographer so don't mind fumbling around a bit to get the settings I want. I can imagine that if you need to set something up very quickly or you'll miss your shot then your points are well made.

[Raist3d]

I must admit I wrote my 'review' after only skimming yours Raist. Now I've read yours in detail I find it an interesting take on the E-3, and nicely contrasting to mine. You seem a bit disappointed how fiddly it is to change settings, and I've not really mentioned it. I guess that just shows how people will always react differently depending on where they're coming from. I'm a pretty slow and methodical photographer so don't mind fumbling around a bit to get the settings I want. I can imagine that if you need to set something up very quickly or you'll miss your shot then your points are well made.

This is in a way the crux of the problem for me, but also I see many things in general, whether I was shooting slow or not. A good example- that Wrotniak picked up (Wrotniak is also not exactly in love with the interface) - when you press one of the three buttons on the left, the two options it can control highlight of the same color on the LCD... so.. quick- which dial changes functionality 1, and which functionality 2?

I sure can't tell. Something like this could be avoided by simply making them a different color. Fortunately this could be addressed by a firmware upgrade.

To me the issue is not whether the E-3 can be used slow or fast (though it's certainly an issue on fast-setting changes for me)- but that even using slow the interface should invite you with confidence, to what the controls are and what you are exactly changing. I just don't feel this way with my E-3 yet. I shoot both types - fast on street life, slower when doing landscapes/abstracts, but I tend to try different settings.

On top of that I was never a fan of bigger size and weight... so you combine the two and it makes me start to go GRRR. This became more evident as I took my e-410 "for a walk" in the last 2 days... I was so excited to carry small again.

One thing I want to clarify- when I talk about the E-1 being better (in my eyes) I am not talking about the current E-1 implementation with the slower cpu/etc. but an E-1 button layout and interface with the upgraded E-3 electronics.

- Raist

[Paul Shields]

Yes it is most definitely a more complex beast than the E-1, and most certainly more complex than any basic SLR of the past. Personally I'm still a Luddite and the only thing I change when out and about is the aperture. So long as there's a dial for that then everything else is gravy .

Raist, as you're into streetlife photography I'd have thought that the speed to capture an image is more important than worrying over a particular setting. Not sure if you were able to catch BBC - Photography - Genius of Photography - Homepage ? One episode featured Joel Meyerowitz, obviously a very well known and respected photographer. He takes a lot of street shots with his little film Leica and basically doesn't touch anything but the shutter release as he's working. He still seems to get some great shots. I'm pretty sure that if he used the E-3 he'd fold the LCD inwards, dial in the aperture or shutter speed he wanted to work with and fire off a load of fine shots. It's nice to be able to tweak things quickly in the field, but the main tweakable features are still at hand on the E-3 I think. Stick it in auto-ISO and it's pretty much a point and shoot but with superior output .

iN-PUBLiC | Joel Meyerowitz

[Raist3d]

Funny you mention that. Someone in dpreview was commenting on using the E-3 this way, and have a "no chimping policy" to learn to previsualize some more. I thought about this too. I think you have a point on what you said, but I guess in my case my style demands tweaking as I go many places and frequently move - sometimes. I do more than street photography, I want to mention that too, but I think a camera interface should be inviting.. to play/tweak/set. I have heard some people talking about using the presets and be happy there, and that's cool if that's what they need but to me that smacks of a workaround.

I want to play with exposure for composition effect and this requires experimentation in manual controls. There's another e-410 shot I will post later... about that. It's a product/abstract shot I guess.

To me that's a bit like saying "yeah so that TV has the channel dial / buttons on the back of the TV with four presets on front. Just program the presets and use those! You only watch about 3 channels anyway."



It's a work around. For $1,700 USD I don't want work arounds. But I don't want to jump to conclusions and want to use the E-3 a bit more and see how it feels.

- Raist

[Mr. Pickles]

You are right. For that kind of money, it needs to be like a glove and perform like a dream...

[keepright]

I've been using the E-3 for two and a half months now, which is about 1/12 the time that I've been using the E-1. I also have an E-510 that I picked up last summer, so I've had a confusing time trying to handle three cameras more or less simultaneously.

First, I have to say that I'm really impressed by the image quality of this camera. I fell in love with it very quickly, unlike the E-510 which I found a little disappointing. I use my E-3 the same way I use my E-1: I trust the camera and don't feel the need to second-guess how it will record the scene in front of me. My typical settings are aperture priority, auto-wb, auto-iso, metering is centre-weighted with the AEL set for highlight-spot. I typically leave the camera in sequential-3fps drive, fast enough for follow-up shots but not too fast for me to get my finger off of the button, and the AF is ST-D normal. I use raw capture for its flexibility and workflow improvements over jpeg, but the jpegs are excellent as well.

My disappointments with the E-3 are few. Perhaps the biggest one is the card door: I loved the metal door on the E-1. I wouldn't object to the plastic of the E-3 if it didn't flex, but its slight movement really bugs me. I'm still finding the interface unintuitive, especially when the rear LCD displays a double-row of options, as it does with the ISO settings. I want to use the up-down arrow buttons to jump from row to row. I understand why I can't, but it looks like I should be able to. I also wish that the mode and AF buttons were larger, taller, and different shapes.

design of the E-1 v. E-3:

Perfect is subjective, so I'm not aiming for that. Having had some time with the E-3, I now prefer its feel and control layout. I find the grip more comfortable for both hands, and adore the shutter button, which is the control I use the most. I'm okay with the front command dial being above or below the shutter button, but I prefer the shorter reach to the rear dial on the E-3. As I use it for the exposure compensation, that's important to me. I've gotten accustomed to the lack of a mode dial -- 95% of the time I'm in Av anyway -- but I actually miss the E-1's flippy-switch for the AF mode, which many people seemed to hate. My nemesis with the E-1 was the diopter control, which the E-3 safely hides under the eye cup.

The other obvious difference between the control layouts is that the people who don't like the E-3 have often had years to get used to the E-1. Quite frankly, the E-1 has some serious problems as well. The EV and ISO buttons on the 3 have taken a lot of abuse, but I can reach them without changing my grip. It's not comfortable, but it's possible. With the E-1, I have to shift my thumb up and loosen my grip on the rear of the camera. Worse, if I hit the EV button on the E-1, I can't simultaneously use the rear dial (no sticky buttons) so I need to use the front dial, and now I'm far away from the shutter button and have practically climbed on top of the camera. The natural solution to both cameras designs of this important control is to use the rear dial, but not everyone will do that. Until Olympus updates the E-1's firmware to enable sticky buttons, the advantage has to go to the E-3.

The E-1's WB button is also very hard to reach, as its blocked by the command and mode dials. And to reach the AEL button you need to actually let go of the rear thumb grip. The E-3 doesn't solve all of these problems -- the focus point selector, which is more important than ever, is still on the wrong side of the thumb grip -- but it is a better design. Why does the E-1 need a dedicated button to "lock" images?

I like the E-510 as a competent little camera, but it doesn't inspire me the way the E-1 and E-3 do. Any camera's controls become natural with enough use, and I'm looking forward to getting a lot of use out of the E-3. The E-1's a great camera, and six months ago I would have just asked for an updated electronics package in its body, but now I'm glad that Olympus wasn't satisfied with that.

[Paul Shields]

Some very good points Matthew. You made me think a bit more about some of the E-1 shortcomings, which I tend to ignore, but you're right some of the E-1 buttons are in silly places.

[Mr. Pickles]

I wonder something I have not heard mentioned. The flipping/rotating LCD screen itself. When you store the camera away, I assume that you can flip it around so the LCD is on the inside, right?

If so, does that bother anybody? Would you not rather have a plastic cover on it like the E-1 had?

[Paul Shields]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pickles

I wonder something I have not heard mentioned. The flipping/rotating LCD screen itself. When you store the camera away, I assume that you can flip it around so the LCD is on the inside, right?

If so, does that bother anybody? Would you not rather have a plastic cover on it like the E-1 had?

I personally find the E-3 way better, purely because it is a real protection for the screen. I'm not sure if the plastic cover would work as well on the E-3 as it would protrude a bit. I like the idea of not having any LCD on the back when you don't really need to view the screen anyway - the top LCD or the viewfinder details are usually enough - you just have to unlearn chimping .

[keepright]

Paul, thanks.

Originally Posted by Mr. Pickles

If so, does that bother anybody? Would you not rather have a plastic cover on it like the E-1 had?

You certainly can reverse the screen to protect it, and sometimes I do. I'm most likely to use it when I'm putting the E-3 into a crowded camera bag, but if I'm just carrying the camera in my usual sling pack, I don't bother. And, as Paul said, I reverse it when I'm trying not to chimp.

The LCD protector that came with my E-1 only got used once. I'm left-eye-dominant, so the added thickness really got in the way. (Not a problem with the E-3 as the eyepiece is farther back.) The LCD does have a few slight scratches, but nothing that interferes with its use.

[Raist3d]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pickles

I wonder something I have not heard mentioned. The flipping/rotating LCD screen itself. When you store the camera away, I assume that you can flip it around so the LCD is on the inside, right?

If so, does that bother anybody? Would you not rather have a plastic cover on it like the E-1 had?

No, doesn't bother me. I actually like it because you can flip it out of view and you got a classic no-chimp "mode"

- Raist

[Raist3d]

Originally Posted by Paul Shields

I personally find the E-3 way better, purely because it is a real protection for the screen. I'm not sure if the plastic cover would work as well on the E-3 as it would protrude a bit. I like the idea of not having any LCD on the back when you don't really need to view the screen anyway - the top LCD or the viewfinder details are usually enough - you just have to unlearn chimping .

So Paul, an honest question: how often you chimp? I was able to take two shots once with the e-330 with zero chimping, knowing that "I got it" and the amount of power, fuzzy warm feeling flowing though my veins was immense I have had moments that are approximate to these two shots but these two shots were just perfect as I took them without having chimped once.

I should try to get to that point. In that sense I like the E-3's ability to set to a "no chimp" mode

- Raist