Panasonic Lumix DSLR

[Raist3d]

Panasonic Lumix DSLR: which option would best describe your interest in this camera?

[Paul Shields]

I selected "I have all the equipment I want for now". However, in the future this type of camera is really of interest for me. I love the classic design, I just can't justify it what with an E-1, E-330 and Canon 5D. Already have too much. I feel I'll be reaching a crossroads within the next 12 month though - whether to pursue 4:3rds or the Canon FF.

Currently the 5D trumps Oly (and I suspect Pany) on image resolution and high ISO noise (which has turned out to be important for me), but the Oly wins in overall usability, accuracy and ergonomics. I think it will all depend on what Olympus come out with by Photokina. If the E-X has a big jump in resolution and if there are some faster lenses around (to make up for the increased DoF of the 4:3rds format) then I'll be a happy Oly user . Regardless, I'm very pleased that this camera has come out, as well as the new lenses that Panasonic have shown to be working on. All good news for 4:3rds fans.

[etaf]

I selected "I have all the equipment I want for now". and have had a lot of canon equipment so slightly biased as its been very good to me... however, i have recommend these cameras on another forum.... but that was a LUMIX DMC-LS2 seemed to meet the requirements so not DSLR

[Elitephoto9]

Hello to everyone
I love the look of the L1, but if they don't bring out more primes at a good price I may more to Nikon, but Nikon doesn't have anything like the L1. By Photokina in Sept. I'll make a choice.
Have fun
Roger :-X

[Raist3d]

I have to say after realizing that the E-1 does indeed have superior tonal range to the evolts, and seeing now why, my next camera will be either an E-1, the new E-3 (or whatever name it is and assuming it improves on the E-1 in DR/tonal range) or a Fuji S3/S4.

- Raist

[glenbarrington]

Just too early to say. The price of around $2000 USD doesn't scare me away, but I want to hold off until I hear something more concrete about image quality, performance, and operaton.

[sean_buerger]

Not enough information yet to make a decision!

When going for FOURTHIRDS there is the question of aspect ratio. I'm a libra person, so making up my mind is a somewhat complicated process. Balance has to be found! I do like the 1.33 aspect ratio (AR) for the portrait orientation. Anything more than that often seems unnecessary or extreme even. In landscape orientation I like to go more panoramic though. Most SLRs are 1.5. But AR of 1.85 or even 2.25 is very appealing to me! This in turn requires cropping our stitching. Stitching can be painful, as it's virtually impossible to do, with moving objects. My panorama software goes NUTS when people walk in my pictures

The PANA4/3 gives us rather nice 'classic' controls. We can directly select aperture and speed on dials, like we used to, when using e. g. a Nikon F2. When I want to adjust shutter speed on my current dSLR, I need to look on the LCD. Afterwards I decide to adjust let's say shorter. Then I look on the display again, until it is right... Isn't it just nicer to adjust a dial, which has the speed written on it? I'd say yes.

Live View is certainly a noteworthy and most interesting feature, which allows new perspectives on the good old SLR concept. As far as I understand, PANASONIC doesn't want to give us a screen that folds out, like it does on the OLYMPUS, where many a component is shared. Maybe they're concerned with built quality issues and afraid their customers are going to knock off the screen?

And there is the issue with the optical view finder. Apparently it's not as good as the competition (left alone the Oly E330). So how bad is it really? Will I be able to focus the camera in MF over the optical view finder and get a good hit rate?

Built quality issues should generally not be an issue with PANASONIC. Their reputation, especially in Asia, where I live, is very good. The price is certainly too high to make it a mainstream seller.

Cheerio. Sean.

[Raist3d]

Live View is certainly a noteworthy and most interesting feature, which allows new perspectives on the good old SLR concept. As far as I understand, PANASONIC doesn't want to give us a screen that folds out, like it does on the OLYMPUS, where many a component is shared. Maybe they're concerned with built quality issues and afraid their customers are going to knock off the screen?

They actually went on record saying theyw ere concerned with the Camera's aesthethics....

- Raist

[alex66]

I put e300 as that is what ill buy soon id rather spend money on glass or travel but I do like the apearance of the pana

[Tom Caldwell]

I think only crazies will say that they will buy one as soon as it hits the shelves. It is an expensive camera based on its specification but we all know and expect it to shoot better than its specifications. Whether it is seen as good value is the big issue that cannot be foretold.

Many potential buyers are already committed to other camera systems and will take a lot of reassuring before they think of abandoning the devil they know. This does not leave many potetntial buyers. Those new to expensive digital camera may already have bought a cheaper body with another mount. So what are we left with? Those with an existing 4/3 system camera and those moving up from a prosumer into an expensive dslr. One would have thought that there were not many who would make such a big cost jump from prosumer to dslr and especially not to a new manufacturer of dslr's no matter how well respected.

So the sales predictions must be fairly bleak and this camera will need to be around for quite a while selling in small numbers and reputation-building. A further problem in this regard is that building the reputation might be hard but one slip and it will be in tatters.

It is not all complete gloom of course because there is another source of business. The L1 follows the LC1 in looking very much like a digital version of the rangefinder style of camera. Of course it is far from a rangefinder but the visual clues are telling users subtley that this is the preceived use. That is that it is not meant to be used with a big range of lenses. Yes you can use more than one lens but it is more "can" than "must".

I am waiting to see if the L1 is for me. I have plenty of cameras and have no real need for another. I have EOS bodies and more EOS lenses than the the average golfer has clubs in his bag. So I cannot justify the purchase of an L1 as just another digital camera - I do not wish to start another lens collection and I am happy enough with what I have presently.

So what draws me to seriously look at the L1 and to hover precariously on the brink of yet another camera-purchase event? Basically the LC1 - despite the LC1 seeming like a toy beside the L1 the L1 must acquit itself reasonably well size-wise when compared to a 5D + battery pack. The LC1 is a great bit of gear and was instrumental in convincing me to respect that overall quality is not measured by the specification sheets alone.

Despite this I don't want to start a new 4/3 lens collection. How can you justify this in your own mind Tom? Well I figure that the "Rangefinder" L1 with standard (very nice) kit lens is going to be a nice piece of gear. Why take it off? Why buy another? If I think of the L1 as an all-in-one super prosumer then we have the bridge camera that no one has been game to make up until now.

Buyers are being at least partly pushed into this scenario due to few Leica branded 4/3 lenses being on offer (one at last count). More will come but in the meantime those that buy the L1 might not feel disadvantaged by a camera with a single lens. I do know that there are many 4/3 system lenses already available for those that have to have the "kit" however the one lens might "do" for most.

Considering this camera an expensive but very capable "rangefinder" will partially salve my conscience as it places the camera in a use-niche of its own rather than telling me that it must be the cuckoo that kicks the other (EOS) chicks out the nest.

That said, I am not racing down to the store, I am waiting calmly for the camera to arrive then I will walk, not run, to have a look and decide objectively whether this camera will light my fire.

There must be a lot of us in a similar situation and a few of us will buy - no doubt.

Tom

[Sidebyte]

Originally Posted by Raist3d

I have to say after realizing that the E-1 does indeed have superior tonal range to the evolts, and seeing now why, my next camera will be either an E-1, the new E-3 (or whatever name it is and assuming it improves on the E-1 in DR/tonal range) or a Fuji S3/S4.
- Raist

Raist,
You really struck a nerve with me with this post. I sold off all my older equipment (Kodak 14n and D1h and lenses) except all of my Canon FD series cameras and lenses. I am really taken with the reditions of the S3 and am seriously considering both a S3 and a D50 for light travel. But with the current price of the E-1 and the E-500 Oly's I'm really in a quandry. Got to buy new lenses anyway so no real committment there and from my past experience with Oly ( still have 2 Oly digicams), their lens are on a par with any others in the same price category. I've always loved both the overpriced E-1 and the same with the S3, both now
give-aways. Odd you have picked the same models as me. An E-1 AND a E-500 with the 2 lens kit is only about $1.200 USD, can't come close to that combo for that price.

[Paul Shields]

Originally Posted by Sidebyte

Raist,
You really struck a nerve with me with this post. I sold off all my older equipment (Kodak 14n and D1h and lenses) except all of my Canon FD series cameras and lenses. I am really taken with the reditions of the S3 and am seriously considering both a S3 and a D50 for light travel. But with the current price of the E-1 and the E-500 Oly's I'm really in a quandry. Got to buy new lenses anyway so no real committment there and from my past experience with Oly ( still have 2 Oly digicams), their lens are on a par with any others in the same price category. I've always loved both the overpriced E-1 and the same with the S3, both now
give-aways. Odd you have picked the same models as me. An E-1 AND a E-500 with the 2 lens kit is only about $1.200 USD, can't come close to that combo for that price.

Sidebyte, if you're looking for a quick win then the E-1 would seem to be ideal. It really does have great image quality for a 5mp chip - I often prefer the out of camera image to that captured with my Canon 5D. It is a bit lacking in resolution for really finely detailed prints above A4, but makes up for it in construction and usability. Oly lenses aren't as expensive as people make out for their quality, and there are more coming from Sigma and no doubt Pany/Leica. If you have a bigger budget then wait a few weeks to see what Oly announce at Photokina. The expectation's killing us Oly fans...

[Raist3d]

Originally Posted by Sidebyte

Raist,
You really struck a nerve with me with this post. I sold off all my older equipment (Kodak 14n and D1h and lenses) except all of my Canon FD series cameras and lenses. I am really taken with the reditions of the S3 and am seriously considering both a S3 and a D50 for light travel. But with the current price of the E-1 and the E-500 Oly's I'm really in a quandry. Got to buy new lenses anyway so no real committment there and from my past experience with Oly ( still have 2 Oly digicams), their lens are on a par with any others in the same price category. I've always loved both the overpriced E-1 and the same with the S3, both now
give-aways. Odd you have picked the same models as me. An E-1 AND a E-500 with the 2 lens kit is only about $1.200 USD, can't come close to that combo for that price.

There's certainly something to be said for the S3 and E-1 as tools. I am shooting jpegs nowadays and the jpegs of those two cameras are really good. That being said the jpeg engine of the e-330 is not bad... but lacks the "crispness" at times of the former cameras.

If I was going to buy an evolt today, it's very likely I would go S3.. if I was starting to build lenses. If I was on a budget, I would have defintively considered the E-1- with what I know now. At this point, I will probably go E-3 since I have 3 great Zuiko lenses, and I have come to appreciate some of the 4/3rd advantages, but I wouldn't rule out a Fuji S4 is the price is right and there's something big over the S3.

When it comes to supreme dynamic range, the S3 wins. When it comes to supreme handling/"will work" the E-1 wins - and the E-1 is not bad in pic quality either. I think both are great tools with pros/cons.

- Raist

[Sidebyte]

Thanks for the input...
I have a couple of questions regarding both cameras,
First the S3 I've noticed has a lot of post regarding small equipment failure like the usb plug falling inside the camera case. Second, no secret, it sure isn't rainproof. Not much about sensor failure like the S2.

I would like to see some figures on the repair history of the E-1, I've virtually never read much about failures or mechanical problems. I've had Oly cameras for a number of years and am amazed at some of the workmanship and quality, my old C-3030z has a full aluminum body and has never failed me, the same with the UZI. I never owned a E-10 or E-20 but understand they were a brick outhouse.

I want the camera for maximum 13 X 19 prints (Epson 2400) and from what I've been able to garner from several forums, is the fact that either will do a capitol job.

My immediate knee jerk reaction is to buy the E-1 while they are available for a song, then also add a 300, 500 or 330 as a second body. At the low end price of the E-1, I can sell it when the E_? comes out. I really haven't been able to get a comprehensive evaluation of the image quality of the 330 vs. the 500? Any of them are better than me :

[glenbarrington]

The problem with opinions on image quality is that everyone has one (an opinion, that is). The minute someone says Camera A is better than Camera B, someone else will angrily refute it.

I WILL say, the E500 image quality is as good as any of it's peers. I won't say it's better than the E330. I've never used the E330, but from the sample images i've seen from regular people, I would say they are identical in image quality.

I like my E500, it has provided as satisfactory traditional SLR experience as I can expect from a digital camera. And that was exactly what I was looking for. Maybe for my next camera, I will branch out a bit and get the E330 replacement, or the Panasonic, or the mythical Leica. But for my first DSLR I wanted something I could relate to and build on my prior non digital experience. In that sense I am pleased.

[Raist3d]

Originally Posted by Sidebyte

Thanks for the input...
I have a couple of questions regarding both cameras,
First the S3 I've noticed has a lot of post regarding small equipment failure like the usb plug falling inside the camera case. Second, no secret, it sure isn't rainproof. Not much about sensor failure like the S2.

I have also noticed that too. Given that I have seen trouble with my Fuji F700 camera with dust all the way from brand new, I honestly don't think Fuji's build quality is up to par with the likes of Canon, Nikon and particularly, Olympus, though from what I hear Canon has slipped a bit. AFAIK Olympus higher end cameras are tanks. The E-1 can probably survive a nuclear explosion and continue shooting

As for sensor failures on the S3, I haven't heard anything on that, though the S2 sensor started to fail later on so we'll see. Fuji not only had sensor failurs on the S2, but the F700 and other consumer/prosumers had the same problem.

I would like to see some figures on the repair history of the E-1, I've virtually never read much about failures or mechanical problems. I've had Oly cameras for a number of years and am amazed at some of the workmanship and quality, my old C-3030z has a full aluminum body and has never failed me, the same with the UZI. I never owned a E-10 or E-20 but understand they were a brick outhouse.

There you go. Same goes for say the C8080 which for a while was the standard as far as all in one lens go. The camera feels and is built like a tank. I am just a tad dissapointed the feel went a bit down from e-300 to e-500 and e-330 though I appreciate the weightlessness of the e-500. It's when you are out shooting all day you realize (or at least in my case) I rather let go of the "it weights there fore is good" cachet and have something lighter.

I want the camera for maximum 13 X 19 prints (Epson 2400) and from what I've been able to garner from several forums, is the fact that either will do a capitol job.

My understnading is that, such size is about the reasonable limit for the E-1. From what I understand shooting with the E-1 is like shooting 35mm film- try to get the frame right and not crop. Which is fine at least that the view finder has 100% coverage.

My immediate knee jerk reaction is to buy the E-1 while they are available for a song, then also add a 300, 500 or 330 as a second body. At the low end price of the E-1, I can sell it when the E_? comes out. I really haven't been able to get a comprehensive evaluation of the image quality of the 330 vs. the 500? Any of them are better than me :

I would say the e-330 has a better sensor by about 0.25 to 0.75 ev's for lower light / noise handling. I thought it was up to 1.25 ev's but that's probably a best case after some more testing I did. But it's better. I would say though if you don't care for live view, go e-500 because it still has all the jpeg tweakability, hopefully the jpeg resolve power of the e-330 or near so, and the metering of the e-330 and you will save $300+ USD.


- Raist