Pageant Shooting Help

[Eagle355]

Hi
I don't know if this is the correct forum to post my question for any advice but i thought its closer to my subject than the other forums

I will be shooting my first pageant competition,will be one of the official photographers and i can really use some advice-tips.

The pageant competition will take place in a venue,the contestants will walk up in a stage,so i guess i will be using mostly my 70-200 f2.8L canon lens. My camera is the 500D/REbel t1, i also have a canon 24-70mm f2.8L lens,i might use for backstage / snap shops before the event starts. My flash is the canon 430EX II i don't know if its a weak flash as i will be standing a bit far from the stage.

Also what are the best settings i can use? (Aperture-Shutter/Iso-White balance?)
My thinking is to use the settings i use in a fashion show. i.e. f 2.8-3.2, shutter speed no less than 1/165-1/200 and iso 800,white balance either on tungsten or flash and also the Focus point on the eyes of the contestant ?

Any advice-help will be greatly appreciated as i am a bit stress about it because i was given this chance, I don't want to mess it up by not having any good photos.

P.s. I always shoot on Manual,will the Programme (P) mode help in this situation?

[Scrub]

I have done a couple of pageants, and a couple of dance shows. If you are back away from the stage use the 70-200 and shoot aperture priority at 2.8 or 3.2, set a min shutter speed of 1/100 for beauty/casual/swimsuit and 1/160 for talent, then just let the ISO float to the max you are comfortable with for your camera.

I shoot a Nikon D90 so I am not sure if you can use this exact setup.

I know the official photographer for Miss NC, and he actually uses a couple of monolights with radio triggers to cover the stage and stop action, and drags the shutter a bit to capture some ambient light. I am not yet equipped for that, but it is where I am heading.

[Scrub]

Oh, I forgot to say. Go to the dress rehearsal to test your settings.

[William W]

Originally Posted by Eagle355

I will be shooting my first pageant competition,will be one of the official photographers . . . Any advice-help will be greatly appreciated as i am a bit stress about it because i was given this chance

General advice may be inadequate or inappropriate to your specific shoot – more details are required, IMO.


What is the end use of the photos you will shoot?
Are you being paid? - (i.e. is there a contractual arrangement to supply goods and /or services)
Is there a rehearsal or lighting check?
Which 70 to 200F/2.8 lens?
Do the contestants walk ACROSS a Stage or DOWN a cat walk?
What distance is “standing a bit far from the stage” ?
Does the venue have STAGE LIGHTS, specifically a FOLLOW SPOT, for each contestant?
Are you fixed in one spot or can you move?
What Flash Modifies do you have?
Do you have a Flash Bracket and Off Camera Cord?
Do you have a Back Up Camera?
Have you much experience and success, using your 430EXMkII Flash – with your CAMERA in “M” (manual) shooting mode, when shooting indoors?
Do you know that the 430EXMkII functions differently in: M; Av; and P Camera Shooting Modes and do you know those differences?



WW


NB - I believe there is no function to limit the “float” of the Auto ISO function, on an EOS 500D.
The "Float" is ISO100 to ISO1600 for Av Mode shooting.
However: If a Speedlite is attached and ON - there will be other restrictions and all different depending upon the Speedlite's functions, use and settings.

[Sailor Blue]

With my Canon 7D, Av and P are basically the same thing with flash. Only Tv and M are controllable to any extent with flash. I almost never bother with Tv when I'm using flash, I just keep the camera in Manual mode.

I find that ETTL II causes about a 1 to 2 stop underexposure with flash. I tend to set the flash power manually unless I'm shooting subjects that change their camera/subject distance a lot, then I consistently use Flash Exposure Compensation values of +0.7 to 2.3 depending on subject, distance, and whether or not I use bounce.

With the 7D Auto ISO will screw everything up, changing shutter speeds and apertures as well as ISO even in Manual mode. Manually setting an ISO value is necessary.

I also found that if Safety switch, C Fn. I -6, is set to Enable then E-TTL II works in all camera modes like it does in Automatic mode, which is to say that it is basically worthless. If Safety switch, C Fn. I -6, is set to Disable then E-TTL II works in all camera modes as it should according to the manual.

The 430EX II is a very small flash for something like pageant shooting. I would want to use bigger lights and set them up well in advance to catch the models at specific places during their walks. Fresnel lenses would let you place these well away from the stage, but the light would be hard. Of course it will be hard from your 430EX anyway.

You should look into renting equipment if you are being paid. Doing a bad job with inadequate equipment will not get you any future work. Consider renting enough equipment to do a truly professional job an investment in your future.

[Scrub]

I guess I made some assumptions since I have done this type of work before.

You will get better information from other people if you give a better explanation of some of the details of what pageant shooting entails.

I should have asked what pageant and if you are shooting for the directors to use or for sale to the families.

[ksgal]

Go to the practice session(s)! Set a custom white balance for every setting you think you will have a decent shot for pictures, and then move those onto all the black cards so you can quickly go to the correct pic and re-set and then shoot. (bring them into photoshop and label them if that will help) This will also help figure out a set of good shots to try for all the girls, it will be impossible to be everywhere, so pic a place for the max coverage and forget about the rest.

Be sure to go and team up with the lighting guys and get exact conditions either during practice, or right after. There is no second take out there during the live performance. The glare/wb of the spotlight is something I would nail down way ahead of time. Trying to use a flash on top of the spotlight could be challenging, to say the least.

The lighting guys will be your best friends in getting pictures if you work with them, bring them food, whatever it takes to get them to walk you thru the different lighting set ups so you get the WB/exposure ahead of time and figure out your best spot to set up.

Bonus is candids during practice. And more time for those back stage photos.

I would consider renting a second body so you can go back and fourth between the short and long lens fast.

Best of luck!

[Eagle355]

Originally Posted by William W

General advice may be inadequate or inappropriate to your specific shoot – more details are required, IMO.


What is the end use of the photos you will shoot?
Are you being paid? - (i.e. is there a contractual arrangement to supply goods and /or services)
Is there a rehearsal or lighting check?
Which 70 to 200F/2.8 lens?
Do the contestants walk ACROSS a Stage or DOWN a cat walk?
What distance is “standing a bit far from the stage” ?
Does the venue have STAGE LIGHTS, specifically a FOLLOW SPOT, for each contestant?
Are you fixed in one spot or can you move?
What Flash Modifies do you have?
Do you have a Flash Bracket and Off Camera Cord?
Do you have a Back Up Camera?
Have you much experience and success, using your 430EXMkII Flash – with your CAMERA in “M” (manual) shooting mode, when shooting indoors?
Do you know that the 430EXMkII functions differently in: M; Av; and P Camera Shooting Modes and do you know those differences?



WW


NB - I believe there is no function to limit the “float” of the Auto ISO function, on an EOS 500D.
The "Float" is ISO100 to ISO1600 for Av Mode shooting.
However: If a Speedlite is attached and ON - there will be other restrictions and all different depending upon the Speedlite's functions, use and settings.

I will try to be a bit more specific-precise..
First of all i will not be paid but maybe this is my chance to get to know the girls-contestants and maybe in the future if i have some nice photos they will hire me for shooting their portfolios. Also i will give my photos to a few lifestyle magazines to be published..now on the technical aspects":

There will be a rehersal before the main event,however i don't know if they will just walk across the stage with the actual lighting conditions or will just walk with normal lighting. The girls will be walking across the stage its the classic swimsuit walk then night dress,then the talent-interview from the judges and then we have the results...the show will take about 2-3 hours. I am using the ef 70-200 IS canon f2.8 lens.I guess i will be standing about 20-30 meters away from the stage.Yes the venue has Stage lights and also has specific Follow up lights for each contestant-that;s why my guess will be setting my white balance on tungsten or fluorence. I do not have anything else than the gear mentioned (not even an extracamera body) just my camera the two lenses and my flash. I usually shoot in manual mode so i don't know what effect my flash will have on AV/TV /P modes. and to be honest i don;t know much about my flash either as the user manual is not very helpful i just put it on auto and shoot if i need more flash i just increase the flash power with the + sign

[William W]

Thanks for the extra information.

Firstly, it is good there is a rehearsal – get to it.

This will both calm you down and also provide a practice run and maybe some extra useful photos.
You will not be using the Flash at 20 to 30mtrs SD (Shooting Distance).

It is good that you have the IS version of the F/2.8 zoom as you might be shooting around 1/250s or slower, hand held.

My guess is the Girls will stop and face the audience at least once during their walk across the Stage. This is the most opportune time to pull the key shot, as they will (should be) putting on their biggest smile and best pose: also this is the time when they will be at their stillest position: but do not limit your shots to only one of each Girl – what I am saying is make sure that you get THAT one, I described.

As there is a follow spot, in theory the lighting should not change that much on each Contestant and as you are used to using Manual Mode then once you sort out your exposure then it (should be), mostly set and forget for each individual Girl, however if you zoom out (or swap the 24 to 70) for a wider shot, the LV (Light Value) of the scene might have dropped some, as you will only have the Stage Lights.

So – it is likely (just a guess) - that the Stage Lights will be a Full Bank, most of the times when all the Girls or a group of Girls are on the Stage, together.

At this time you will need to re assess the exposure settings – but again (my guess) once you know that setting, it is likely it will be the same for the evening: so basically if the lighting is NON theatrical you most probably will only have two exposure settings: one for the tight shot of each individual Girl and one for the Wide Stage shot.

On the other hand – if there is a light show with all of this, then for the most part the Follow Spot should do its job and you should be safe with the one exposure for each of the Girls individually – but be prepared for the Follow Spot Gel to change between the two different parades and the interview.

I would set Tungsten White Balance, yes.

The point is if the lights are colour-gelled then I would want to keep that colour feel in the photos.

On the technical I think you would want to be at ISO800 if you can, but you will also want to hold 1/250s if possible and I would like to use that lens at F/4 for this job. You will be at or around FL = 200mm at that SD.

If there is not enough light – then you will need to make sacrifice choices and the first would be I would drop to F/3.2 if necessary: next I would bump to ISO1600, even ISO3200 and lastly I would sacrifice Shutter Speed.

A monopod would be useful - but so is your IS, but a monopod if you can borrow one would be good - especialy if you are to be seated all three hours.

You didn’t specify, but I assume that you cannot move once you get into position – so one task you have at the rehearsal is to establish the best Shooting Position – and you might only know that after a few of the Girls do their practice: so this is where your people management skill come in.

Once you work out what is the best spot, then somehow try to get to it and post yourself there: I understand that you are a guest and that you might be “put” in a position when you arrive, but everything is negotiable – so negotiate, but do it quick and do it early.

Do not underestimate how important this bit of advice is: establishing the best vantage point to shoot from all evening, is half the battle.

For the shots behind the scenes / backstage using you 24 to 70 most likely it would be best to use the Flash with the white bounce card out and the head tiled up at 45° the Flash in E-TTL mode and the camera in P Mode, ISO400 – as the backstage will be relatively dark the Flash will compute that you want it to be the Key Light.

If you shoot at about 6ft to 15ft from the Subjects and shoot no wider than 35mm, P mode should manage that quite well and you will not need to learn the ins and outs of the Flash gear for this shoot.

Practice this method inside somewhere like "backstage".

You need to work out memory /capacity – let’s say five shots of each girl; at each stage of the event – for example number of Girls is 40, then the sum is: 40 x 5 x 3 = 600, plus all the wide shots plus all the behind the scenes shots, plus the presentation shots - let’s say if 40 Girls - you will need at least memory capacity for 900 to 1000 shots.

Let’s say 200 shots are behind the scenes with Flash – you need batteries for that - and then spares.

Good Luck,

WW