Windows 7 and RAM

[blumesan]

To the computer gurus among us:

I have read in several posts that a 32 bit O/S (Windows XP) cannot use more than 3 gig (? 4 gig) of ram for the O/S itself or any applications. I plan on upgrading to Windows 7 which, as I understand it, is a 64 bit O/S.

Questions:

- Since PSCS4, which is a 32 bit application, will run under Windows 7, does this O/S automatically switch from 64 bit mode to 32 bit mode depending on the application? (or is this a dumb question?)

- When running Windows 7 can PSCS4 make use of more than 3 gig of memory? If so, how much more? And what must one do in order to achieve this?

- I have read that 64 bit O/S can make use of very large amounts of memory (>8 gig), but is this ability limited by whatever application you are running? Must the application itself be written for 64 bit operation in order to make use of larger amounts of memory?

[edk]

Hi blumesman.
First of all, Windows 7 comes as both 32 and 64 bit, so make sure you stipulate which version you want when you buy it.

64bit W7 can actually support up to 192GB of RAM (as if mere plebs could ever afford this)
PSCS4 will run under 64bit W7 and W7 will switch between 32 bit and 64 bit as it needs to.
The amount of RAM used by applications is governed more by W7 as it pretty much takes total control of all system resources and allocates these to applications based on what the app needs and what is available.
64bit W7 will run almost anything, and does a very good job at maintaining compatibility for applications.
Having a multi core processor with a minimum of 4gig of RAM will run PSCS4 and anything else very well, just remember, the more RAM you have the better.

just to clarify, if you wnat to go above 8gig of ram in W7, you'll ned the Home Premium/Professional version of the OS

[dryadsdad]

When you install CS 4 under a 64 bit OS, it will install twice. One is the 64 bit version and one the 32. You need the 32 bit version because some filters will not work in the 64 bit install. In my setup, only Topaz filters work in 64 bit. So if I anticipate using other filters, I need to run the 32 bit CS 4.

You need do nothing to get CS 4 to use more than 3 gig. It senses the RAM and adjusts itself accordingly or you can manually set its RAM usage up in Edit / Preferences.

[edk]

Originally Posted by dryadsdad

When you install CS 4 under a 64 bit OS, it will install twice. One is the 64 bit version and one the 32.

does this come from a single installation? I have XP32bit and have just bought W764bit, I didn't know there were 2 seperate installations of PSCS4.

[swampler]

Originally Posted by blumesan

To the computer gurus among us:

I have read in several posts that a 32 bit O/S (Windows XP) cannot use more than 3 gig (? 4 gig) of ram for the O/S itself or any applications. I plan on upgrading to Windows 7 which, as I understand it, is a 64 bit O/S.

Questions:

- Since PSCS4, which is a 32 bit application, will run under Windows 7, does this O/S automatically switch from 64 bit mode to 32 bit mode depending on the application? (or is this a dumb question?)

- When running Windows 7 can PSCS4 make use of more than 3 gig of memory? If so, how much more? And what must one do in order to achieve this?

- I have read that 64 bit O/S can make use of very large amounts of memory (>8 gig), but is this ability limited by whatever application you are running? Must the application itself be written for 64 bit operation in order to make use of larger amounts of memory?

It may already be covered, but summary follows:

• 32 bit Windows will see about 3.3 GB of RAM
• Windows 7, retail version, comes with both 32 bit and 64 bit install DVDs
• PS CS4 will detect the 64 bit OS upon installation and install both the 32 and 64 bit versions of itself.
• If you install the 64 bit OS, then CS4 will use more than 4GB of RAM, as needed.
• I don't know that any one program would necessarily use more than 8GB of RAM, currently, but if you run LR, CS4, noise reduction, have a movie playing in the background, etc, then the OS will divvy up that memory between them all.
• Whether a 32 bit app on a 64 bit OS will use more than 3.3GB or not, I'm not sure, but I also don't know that any individual app needs that much or not.

[dryadsdad]

Originally Posted by edk

does this come from a single installation? I have XP32bit and have just bought W764bit, I didn't know there were 2 seperate installations of PSCS4.

Yes. You install CS 4 under Win 7 64 and it'll create two separate Start menu entries. One will be 32 and one 64 bit.

[edk]

Originally Posted by dryadsdad

Yes. You install CS 4 under Win 7 64 and it'll create two separate Start menu entries. One will be 32 and one 64 bit.

bonus!

[blumesan]

THANKS! for all the informative replies.

One more question: I am currently running windows XP/home on my computer, which is about to be retired. Can I just purchase an upgrade to windows 7/64 bit to install on a new computer (now in the planning phase)?
(Probably a question for MS customer service, ha-ha)

[swampler]

Yep, it will check your XP CD to make sure you own Windows already, but it will install.

[blumesan]

Originally Posted by swampler

Yep, it will check your XP CD to make sure you own Windows already, but it will install.

swampler=
If I understand you correctly, I will not have to first install XP on the new computer. Just have the CD handy when I install W7 from the upgrade disk on the new computer.
Thanks.

[franz1976]

Hi all;

32bit applications, or processes, that run on a 64bit Windows environment use only 2GB of RAM.

32bit applications on a 64bit Windows environment run in a virtual environment called WOW(Windows On Windows) which emulate 32bit system calls to let applications run.

In a 32bit Server version of Microsoft's OS exist some feature to let application use more than 4GB of RAM but I'm not sure this exist on Client versions.

[swampler]

Originally Posted by blumesan

swampler=
If I understand you correctly, I will not have to first install XP on the new computer. Just have the CD handy when I install W7 from the upgrade disk on the new computer.
Thanks.

Well, that's the way Windows used to work, but it seems they've even screwed that up. Apparently MS likes screwing around with us. I found this on another forum. An another note, according to MS, if your XP is an OEM version, then you cannot legally use the upgrade on a different PC than the OEM version came with.

That is a direct question and (as others have already explained) the answer to it is "yes!" It is possible to use tyour Windows 7 upgrade disk/key to cleanly install on a new hard drive without first using your manufacturer-provided recovery media.

There are 'workarounds' possible with upgrade disk/key which will enable you to do what you ask and, after performing those procedures, your resulting Windows 7 installation will be fully and legitimately licensed because you satisfy the necessary requirement by virtue of your ownership of a valid qualifying license.

The simplest (to understand) procedure is as follows:


* Remove the old hard drive and replace it with your new (empty) hard drive.
* Pop the windows 7 upgrade disk in the drive and power up, booting from the install disk.
* Install Windows 7 to your new hard drive. When prompted for an install key click on 'Next'. Do not enter your install key at this point.
* After Windows 7 has installed, boot to desktop, pop the install disk in the drive again and, from within Windows, run 'Setup' again.
* This time choose 'Upgrade' as the install type, and enter your install key when prompted.

This will give you a fully working, completely legitimate and perfectly valid Windows 7 install. Your license upgrade is adequately 'qualified' by your ownership of the Windows license which was provided with the PC. You must retain the recovery media and the COA sticker pertaining to that previous license, as physical proof of entitlement/ownership.

You can afterwards format the original hard drive and reuse it for data storage. You must NOT reuse that hard drive in a different machine, or reuse that previous license on a different machine.

[blumesan]

Hi Steve-
A phonecall to the MS store provided the following proceedure:

I must first install my MS-XP on the new computer. Thereafter insert the W7 upgrade disk and perform a "clean install" (upgrade) of the O/S to W7.

They don't make it easy or simple, but this doesn't seem too onerous.

[swampler]

Sounds like a pain in the you know where. I could have sworn that MS used to let you do a clean install without wasting an hour installing an older version first. Oh well, sorry for the mis-information at the start.

[blumesan]

Steve-

Many thanks for the information. One of the links you provided led me to this site which explains a variety of workarounds which eliminate need to first install XP.

[swampler]

Cool. The part I quoted tells you one way of doing it also. I didn't read all of your link yet, so it may be the same. There's also a registry hack that's supposed to work too. Good luck with your install.

[wolfepakt]

32bit is limited to 4 Gig because that is all the address space that exists in 32 bit.
Math for why:
32 bit:
232 = 4,294,967,296 bytes
4,294,967,296 / (1,024 x 1,024) = 4,096 MB = 4GB

64 bit:
264 = 18,446,744,073,709,551,616
18,446,744,073,709,551,616 / (1,024 x 1,024) = 16EB (exabytes)
(So 64 bit is NOT limited to 192 gig. That is a software limitation. But, I doubt many folks can afford Exabytes (1024 gig = 1 Tera, and 1024 Tera = 1 Exa))
[note: this is also limited by the chipset. Good read on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64 ]

I doubt CS4 32bit can use more than that either. (By definition 32 bit is limited to 4 gig. It would be like putting 2 gallons of water in a one gallon jug, it just can't be done.)

That is why the jump to 64bit is happening. Because 4 gig of ram does not handle the new graphic intensive games and apps coming out. (BTW the limit is for ALL ram installed, so if you have a video card with 1 gig RAM then your 32 bit system is limited to 3 gigs system RAM. (2.5 more realistically in Windows since it HAS to have a page file, a.k.a. virtual memory, to operate properly))

Hope this helps!

[franz1976]

Some software like SQL Server can use, in a 32bit environment, more than 4GB of RAM using Address Windowing Extensions (AWE) to access system memory.

I don't know if CS4 can use this method to access system memory.

Francesco

[dryadsdad]

CS 4 32 bit will use 3 gig if the OS shows it's there. To do that, you need to edit a switch in boot.ini. Since the OP is u/g to Win7 64, this isn't useful info in this discussion. I post just to clarify.