Windows 7 RC for download (5-May)

[SyCo]

Nah, Windows is playing catch up in too many areas and Ubuntu as an operating system owns windows.

BTW TurboPrint iP6000D or 6220D driver should work for you and my copy of Photoshop CS2 works just fine in Linux as does office 2007.

[felix.reichardt]

Question; how does CS2 work on Linux? In some sort of VM ware?

[felix.reichardt]

Originally Posted by SyCo

Nah, Windows is playing catch up in too many areas and Ubuntu as an operating system owns windows.

BTW TurboPrint iP6000D or 6220D driver should work for you and my copy of Photoshop CS2 works just fine in Linux as does office 2007.

30 USD for a printer driver? Thanks How about Logitech webcams - Do they provide official drivers now? Does Skype work, Yahoo, MSN. All things I am using.

[felix.reichardt]

Originally Posted by JDArt

I've never understood the fascination with Macs--among the few who use them, that is. I find Macs no more intuitive and no more reliable than Windows boxes. I do find them a lot more expensive, and there's not nearly as much software available for them. The whole "easy" and "it just works" thing is just hype, I think.

The thing that is disturning is that for every Win thread you get the Mac users onboard. They seem have the strange urge to tell the world how great Mac's are.
Now, if they are so great why every 2nd Mac user seem to have Bootcamp installed to run Windows on it? Something seem to be missing on Mac's, don't know.

[SyCo]

CS2 will run through Wine. I guess you've not heard that Skype works on Linux now, from Skype.com. I don't use Yahoo or msn so don't know, pidgeon certainly works for chat but not sure about video, I heard something about amsn having video now.

You complain that you're hardware doesn't work when it does. You just don't want to spend $30 on the driver but you will drop a small fortune on the OS and you're pleased you'll save on software that's been in Linux forever. I don't want to spend $30 on a driver but then I never have. Talking of software compatibility, how can I get the awesome Compiz on Vista? Have you seen Compiz? Turns a lap top into a 3D virtual multi monitor workstation, 16 or more desktops that rotate in and out. Just a flashy upgrade really. It's more than 10 years since Linux introduced the multi workspace desktop. Windows will have that soon... maybe. Windows 8? I love the window 7 side by side thing. Wow!

My Dell MP3 player doesn't (and wont) work with vista so what do I do? In the Windows world I'm simply SOL! I'll have to drop a fair chunk of change to get another 30Gb player. Oh no I wont, it's plug and play in Ubuntu with a choice of apps to organize my music. Phew!

Your views seem to be coming from last years Ubuntu. I understand, being a Windows guy you're used to very slow progress in operating system development. You're not used to releases every 6 months. Heck you're used to some leaps forwards turning into huge leaps backwards. In fact that's been the M.O. for Microsoft since Win98. Win95 was awesome and changed the world and made MS a fortune. Win98 wasn't. ME was a leap backwards, 2000 and NT are best forgotten, then came XP that sucked until service pack 2. Microsoft then decided not to rock the boat for FIVE years!! At which point they launched Vista which was another pile of crap until the service pack. They had 5 years, what were they doing, playing minesweeper? Through that time Linux has steadily improved and will continue to do so. It was a pain in the ass operating system for geeks only but not now. My wife uses it, shes no computer. geek. So no, I'm not chomping at the bit for Widows 7? I'll Virtulize XP until Netflix sees the light.

I heard somewhere that Microsoft could screw up royally and loose money hand over fist and they could still stay in business for 10 years. Right now they are trying to buy the committees that make the decisions on the future of computing. Thankfully we have oversight but even they have a price. This is damaging to the future of computing, most people don't know why. remember I do use Windows and have done forever so I'm not talking about an operating system I'm not familiar with. I suggest again to get familiar with the current Linux. Really give it a fair crack and you will understand why people like to make lengthy posts about it.

Mac users to me are Linux users with a big fat wallet, well they used to have a big fat wallet. Now they no cash but a beautiful Unix based Free BSD system. (Easy my Unix brothers)

So err, OK have fun with Widows 7 everyone, Microsoft thanks you for all your hard earned cash.

[felix.reichardt]

You complain that you're hardware doesn't work when it does.

No it does not natively. Just have a look at what great lenght you have to go to get things like my webcam, canon driver, scanner driver, spyder pro calibration etc. have to get working.

So no, I'm not chomping at the bit for Widows 7? I'll Virtulize XP until Netflix sees the light.

Actually that is funny. You have free Linux and then virtualize XP? Now, how much did you pay for XP then. Did you not make Bill richer Wine is not virtualization so my guess is you are talking about VMware workstation for LInux or such?

Mac users to me are Linux users with a big fat wallet, well they used to have a big fat wallet. Now they no cash but a beautiful Unix based Free BSD system. (Easy my Unix brothers)

So err, OK have fun with Widows 7 everyone, Microsoft thanks you for all your hard earned cash.

Again, why bother about us with the big fat wallet .

[swampler]

I've played with Ubuntu, and as great as free OS seems, I can't see myself using it as my main system because of compatibility issues. I've played with WINE for running Windows programs and it won't run all of them (can't remember now which one gave me fits).

Can you get all the Canon software (DPP, etc) and Lightroom to run, and run well, on Ubuntu?

[Pinkeltje]

I've run Win7 in VMware for a week now, but it's no success. Very slow, and still as unintuitive as ever. Going back to OSX.

[felix.reichardt]

Originally Posted by Pinkeltje

I've run Win7 in VMware for a week now, but it's no success. Very slow, and still as unintuitive as ever. Going back to OSX.

sigh ...

[Pinkeltje]

Originally Posted by SyCo

So err, OK have fun with Widows 7 everyone, Microsoft thanks you for all your hard earned cash.

Erm... Win7 is FREE, SyCo....

[cadmium]

Originally Posted by Pinkeltje

I've run Win7 in VMware for a week now, but it's no success. Very slow, and still as unintuitive as ever. Going back to OSX.

Slow? It's pretty damn fast on any hardware I've ever used it on... and according to everyone else that's used it. What exactly is unintuitive about it? It's even closer to OSX now with it's taskbar dock rip-off.

[SyCo]

Natively, what? You said it wouldn't work, now you find it will and still not good enough? Sorry you may have do something to make it work. All my hardware works, including my old Phillips webcam. I've lost the CD so it wont work in Windows, so is Windows crap because I lot the CD? I was able to suggest a way to get your scanner working in Linux, what can you suggest I do to get my Dell Jukebox working in Vista? Over the years Windows had made me jump through so many hoops to do things it's way. I don't understand why if you have to do something in Linux, it makes it garbage. This says more about your attitude to change than Ubuntu as an operating system. You're attacking Linux repeatedly but it's clear from your posts you know little about it, except for your ingrained opionion from the minimal look you gave it sometime ago. I doubt you'll ever use Linux. You'll be one of thse guys who continues to scoff while it continues to improve beyond the already awesome operating system it has become. I've used both operating systems extensively but am just a normal computer user and from that stand point I know the strengths and weaknesses of both. Can you say that? Can I suggest you withhold your opinion on Linux untill you can.

You're laughing at me because I have XP in a virtual machine? O...K... I think it's funny that you choose to pay for your operating system. Unfortunatly I still have use XP, but only for a couple of things and I'm sure not for much longer. The rest of the time I can enjoy using my computer. If tomorrow everyone wiped their drives and installed Ubuntu then by the next month every piece of software out there would work in Ubuntu. If that was a reality viruses would be a thing of the past overnight. You'd still have access to your email, the internet, and as all software manufactures would support Linux, you'd have all your familiar programs. I know that's a little Utopian but one can dream of a better world. Play your part and set up a dual boot now! Currently some things meant for Windows will not work in Linux, OMG! Linux must be crap. Some things should work in Linux but are crippled, such as Netflix.com. They require you to use Windows and Internet Explorer because of the flawed digital protection model, DRM, that has been abandonded by many major digital retailers. I expect Nexflix to evolve too, or die. As I want to legally watch movies on my laptop I'm forced to use XP. I'm not doing so out of choice. I'm exploring Hulu.com right now which has a pretty good selection. I'm open to any other suggestions too.

WINE stands for Wine Is Not Emulation. It's not a virtual machine. Once installed it will open many applications written for Windows and translate the programs in/out to Unix. You just double click the .exe from within Linux. Freaking amazing they can do that. There's a fledgling project that is trying to build the entire OS on Wine to run all Windows apps. It hopes to provide a free Windows compatibile operating system without windows installed. What a cool idea.

Pinkeltje, you can't assess an OS's speed in a virtual machine, that isn't fair to the OS. Partition and dual boot to get a real feel for it. Can you dual boot Macs now they're Intel based?

Lightroom is still being worked on, currently it's not working.
WineHQ - Adobe Lightroom
Not a priority apperently as there's a Linux version of Lightzone which meets peoples needs. I guess that you will need to run it in virtual machine, virtual Box is very good, and free. At least you would have an insecure operating system jailed inside the secure one. There is an issue for Linux with software, the programs you want to work might not work so there's not enough users to make it worth the developers time to make it work, so they don't use it. It should be a downward spiral for Linux. But even with this chicken and egg problem, the user base continues to grow. How wierd is that. The tipping point is in my opionion right now. Adobe released flash for Linux, Skype has Linux versions. Many more companies are taking notice the change is underway and releaseing Linux version or allowing developers access to develop code. Really expensive propriatory programs like Lightroom will be the last to swing and understandably. So while you still might need a Windows PC for some things, I'd still keep a Ubuntu box for when I just want to surf, email and use a PC for recreation. As they software compatibitily contiues to increase it's will contiue to replace any of the current needs for Windows.

I don't say Linux is great because I'm getting kickbacks or something. It is simply after a couple of years fo use, for all it's flaws, Ubuntu Linux is nicer to use. It will win you over, if you let it.

[SyCo]

Originally Posted by Pinkeltje

Erm... Win7 is FREE, SyCo....

Err no its trial ware.

These are the actual FAQ's from the microsoft site. They are frequently updating them but this is what they say right now.

How long can I use the RC?

The Windows 7 RC will stop working on June 1, 2010. After that date, your PC will stop working and it may be difficult to recover your files. If you're running the RC version of Windows 7, please be prepared to reinstall a prior version of Windows or the final version of Windows 7 before June 1, 2010. See Installing the Windows 7 RC.

Will I get a free copy of Windows 7 once it's released for volunteering to test the Windows 7 RC?

Sorry, no.

Can I upgrade from the RC to the final version of Windows 7?

When you install the final version of Windows 7, you'll need to do a clean installation. So plan on backing up your data then reinstalling your applications and restoring your data.

I'm surprised you can't upgrade. Being forced to do a clean installl is a bit of a kick in the chuds after you've helped them iron out bugs. Re-installing your applications, what a hassle that is in Windows. Go get all those CD's and download all those installers. Find all the keys. We've all been there and it ain't fun. You know you can enter one line in Ubuntu and it'll do all that for you, and get the latest versions automatically.
apt-get install program1 program2 program3
Even my most Windows zealot friends think that rocks pretty hard.


So in windows 7 have they sorted out the disk space eating winsxs folder problem that exists in Vista? It says it needs 16Gb to install but is that a guess as to how much it'll expand to or is it really 16GB post install?

[Pinkeltje]

Originally Posted by SyCo

So in windows 7 have they sorted out the disk space eating winsxs folder problem that exists in Vista? It says it needs 16Gb to install but is that a guess as to how much it'll expand to or is it really 16GB post install?

I know what is does on my machine. But that's not necessarily what it'll do on your machine. So if you want to know what it'll do on your machine, you can! Not from anyone here. But by installing it yourself and giving it a whirl.

Don't want to run any risks? Then install it in a virtual machine.

[felix.reichardt]

Natively, what? You said it wouldn't work, now you find it will and still not good enough? Sorry you may have do something to make it work. All my hardware works, including my old Phillips webcam. I've lost the CD so it wont work in Windows, so is Windows crap because I lot the CD?

Yes, I want a native driver. Blame the supplier blame whoever but I don't want workarounds and Linux has way to manyh still for what I want to use. I want to use Lightroom and CS4 - CANNOT. As I said before if I can get all my hardware and software to work under Linux and I CANNOT than I would probably switch.

I was able to suggest a way to get your scanner working in Linux, what can you suggest I do to get my Dell Jukebox working in Vista?

I have no idea ... sorry. All my hardware works under Vista and Win 7 and XP. Blame Dell for not giving you the drivers and not Microsoft.

You're attacking Linux repeatedly but it's clear from your posts you know little about it, except for your ingrained opionion from the minimal look you gave it sometime ago. I doubt you'll ever use Linux.

I have used it and I am installing document management systems on Linux and UNIX btw. I am not attacking it, I'm just stating facts. Its great for some purpose but not for MY (my but maybe yours) desktop. There are hardware and software that does not run under Linux - fact.

You'll be one of thse guys who continues to scoff while it continues to improve beyond the already awesome operating system it has become. I've used both operating systems extensively but am just a normal computer user and from that stand point I know the strengths and weaknesses of both. Can you say that? Can I suggest you withhold your opinion on Linux untill you can.

I'm installing business software on UNIX and LINUX OS FYI (Document Management Software) and have also installed SAP (The MIcrosoft of the business world) on Linux. So it's not I d not know Linux. I am not a Linux guru though.

You're laughing at me because I have XP in a virtual machine? O...K... I think it's funny that you choose to pay for your operating system.

That's because you were laughing at us making Bill richer ... but you made him richer yourself.

Your part and set up a dual boot now! Currently some things meant for Windows will not work in Linux, OMG! Linux must be crap.

NO, Linux is great but not for my desktop at the moment. That might change and I am monitoring that

WINE stands for Wine Is Not Emulation. It's not a virtual machine. Once installed it will open many applications written for Windows and translate the programs in/out to Unix. You just double click the .exe from within Linux. Freaking amazing they can do that. There's a fledgling project that is trying to build the entire OS on Wine to run all Windows apps. It hopes to provide a free Windows compatibile operating system without windows installed. What a cool idea.

Sorry butI disagree the cool idea would be to use Linux having all the programs that you like and not having even the need for somethjing like Wine.

Pinkeltje, you can't assess an OS's speed in a virtual machine, that isn't fair to the OS. Partition and dual boot to get a real feel for it. Can you dual boot Macs now they're Intel based?

100% agree for the first part.

Lightroom is still being worked on, currently it's not working.
WineHQ - Adobe Lightroom
Not a priority apperently as there's a Linux version of Lightzone which meets peoples needs. I guess that you will need to run it in virtual machine, virtual Box is very good, and free. At least you would have an insecure operating system jailed inside the secure one. There is an issue for Linux with software, the programs you want to work might not work so there's not enough users to make it worth the developers time to make it work, so they don't use it. It should be a downward spiral for Linux. But even with this chicken and egg problem, the user base continues to grow. How wierd is that. The tipping point is in my opionion right now. Adobe released flash for Linux, Skype has Linux versions. Many more companies are taking notice the change is underway and releaseing Linux version or allowing developers access to develop code. Really expensive propriatory programs like Lightroom will be the last to swing and understandably. So while you still might need a Windows PC for some things, I'd still keep a Ubuntu box for when I just want to surf, email and use a PC for recreation. As they software compatibitily contiues to increase it's will contiue to replace any of the current needs for Windows.

Yes it's good to see the Linux development is on the way. Competition is always a good thing. So is the rise of Mac's lately

[felix.reichardt]

True, not being able to upgrade is a bit of PITA. Some people say they have managed to do so but with very long run times.

Originally Posted by SyCo

So in windows 7 have they sorted out the disk space eating winsxs folder problem that exists in Vista? It says it needs 16Gb to install but is that a guess as to how much it'll expand to or is it really 16GB post install?

Well, I'm at 24GB after OS, CS4, Lightroom, MS Office 2003, Adobe Reader, Opera, Skype, ColorSpyder and well some of the crap that you get with MS automatically.
Adobe CS4 installs both a 64bit and 32bit - no idea why.

[TheRileyFactor]

Originally Posted by SyCo

I was able to suggest a way to get your scanner working in Linux, what can you suggest I do to get my Dell Jukebox working in Vista?

Quick google search for "30gb dell jukebox vista" w/o the quotes turned up quite a few solutions...

Dell Digital Jukebox and Vista - FixYa

Looks like you just need to use the compatibility mode of Vista and run the XP driver as administrator and update the firmware on the mp3 player...

[TheRileyFactor]

Originally Posted by Pinkeltje

I've run Win7 in VMware for a week now, but it's no success. Very slow, and still as unintuitive as ever. Going back to OSX.

unintuitive - open to interpretation, i think its very intuitive
Very slow - what kind of computer are you running? G4, G5, Core 2 Duo/Quad? A lot relies on this, and it relies on whether you have Aero enabled and Indexing. Aero on a system that can barely handle it will severely slow it down, and indexing makes searching faster, but it does a lot of background work.

In my experience, Win7 has been very fast, even when I installed it on a laptop that does not anywhere NEAR meet the system requirements. Also, you have to install it for real, otherwise you're just dividing up resources and you REALLY need a good computer to have it run even close to its best. I don't know if you can dual boot FROM a mac and into Win7/Vista... everything I can find is dual booting from a PC to a mac. Does Apple still use their proprietary version of a BIOS? I know they used to use something instead of a BIOS that prohibited installing a Mac OS onto a PC, but I don't know if they still do....

[TheRileyFactor]

My $.000002 on the matter of Linux and Windows...

I've run linux on my computers starting with RedHat and Mandrake (many years ago) and have used Ubuntu 7.*, 8.1, XUBuntu, and Ubuntu Studio. I have also used every version of Windows since 3.1 (including all of the NT and Server versions). With that said, Ubuntu 8.1 is definitely a step in the right direction, but its not there yet. You still have to be a power user in order to really use the OS, and many operations are simply not in the slightest bit intuitive (think about trying to look at what devices you have have actually loaded into the system and what problems they may have as opposed to using the device manager in windows). I still have a hard time getting away from using a command line when I use Ubuntu, but it is FAR less than the old days of Linux. Linux is a great operating system for the power user, and Ubuntu is the best among a crowd of very good contenders, but I would have a hard time recommending it to an every-day run-of-the-mill user.

Vista was a good operating system with a very bad reputation. It had some problems in the beginning that were amplified many times. Service Pack 1 fixed almost all of those issues. Windows 7 is a vast improvement on Vista though. It uses far less resources and runs/boots way faster. Windows has a bad rap for getting viruses and such, but if you turn AutoUpdate on and keep your computer updated, then you'll never get a virus, no matter what web-sites you go to (as long as you don't download and install the virus your self, any OS is susceptible to stupidity). User Account Control (no matter how much people bitch) is also another level of protection that is also seen in unix-based operating systems (Linux and OSX) The problems arise when people don't update their systems, and then OK anything any email or web-site tells them to OK, and those people would do the same thing no matter which OS they're running.

IMHO, the perfect operating system would be a combination of Windows and Linux with the OSX task bar (that 7 ripped off beautifully IMO, lol) Unix security with the Windows interface, compatibility and ease of use.

Wasn't there a project a few years back called Lindows and Vixta? I remember reading about a linux OS that will run anything windows runs and has the ease of use of windows systems? I've never used it... I think Microsoft sued Lindows tho... i'll have to google that now...

-Daniel

[TheRileyFactor]

Microsoft vs. Lindows - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There was a court case, M$ lost, and bought the Lindows name for a lot of $$