7D impressions, not favorable nor for the easily offended

[aphotographynut]

Hello: I first must say that these are PERSONAL OBSERVATIONS. If you own a 7D and love it, I am very very happy for you. However; I returned mine after one day. Now before you all start a lynching on me, you must understand, my sense of humor and sometimes writing is very sarcastic. I apologize for this (well not really). See what I mean?

First of all; here is what I liked about it.

Price
Speed (fps)
Very high ISO capabilities
Decent IQ (pretty darn good in fact)
LCD rocks compared to my icky/crappy 1DmkII
Built in flash could come in very handy
Wireless control of other flashes
CF card instead of one of the most unreliable forms; the dreaded SD.

What I didn't like (grab a cup of coffee) in no particular order.

ISO performance is stated as VERY GOOD, but at 3200 my 1.3x camera was almost as good (not quite, but very very close) to the 1.6x camera. I think it has to do with the size of the pixels, processing, noise reduction etc. I ran samples through Imigenomic's noiseware and poof, I could not tell the pics apart. hmmmmmm. I guess I should have compared to my old 50D. I am sure that would have been much better.

I would like to take and simply slap the person who decided HOW to get to the focus points to change them. Here is what I mean: They go and put 19 points in (YIPPIE) and then make them "smarter"/better (Bravo). They give you different patterns (caution here) and then let you change them. OK: on every other camera I have had, if you want to change the points, you press the button on the far right with your thumb, then spin a wheel/joystick and you have set your points. Simple no? WRONG. On this camera you press the same button, THEN PRESS a button on the front of the camera (near the shutter release-HORRIBLE SPOT FOR IT CANON) to CYCLE THROUGH ALL THE "MODES" till you get the one you want, and only THEN can you pick a point. This is so moronic, I think it is going to be a complete failure. So; I call Canon to see if I am doing something wrong; nope. The only way to get this to the "old" system of auto/manual (translation faster) is to go into a custom function and "ignore" the other focus programs (groups, orientations, etc.) So, if you do that great, but what did you pay for? Also, I was told that you could get around the issue by pressing the "Q" button, navigating to the focus section, highlighting, then changing to the program you want, then going back to the right button, press it, then scroll to the focus point you want. I am not kidding about this. With all the buttons on the camera that are COMPLETELY useless (for someone who has a basic knowledge of photography), they could have easily came up with something different.

OK you say, simply "re program" one of the many customizable buttons. Nope, not an option. In fact I went through the options of re programing and (again, I STRESS this is personal) I didn't really see where any of theses would be useful. I also confirmed this with a Canon tech (very nice people by the way) that what I wanted to do was simply not possible.

Metering: Pardon my language but WHAT THE HELL? GIVE ME SPOT METERING that is tied to a FOCUS POINT. The 1D bodies have had this feature for at least 6 years for goodness sake. If you trickle down any feature, this one is HUGE. Nikon (ICK) has had this feature on almost ALL of their cameras since the D200 or so!

OK: back to the buttons mentioned above. Why spend $1800 on a camera that has, not one, not two, but THREE idiot modes on it?

Green Box: I am a complete and total moron and don't deserve a camera like this. In fact if you see me in this mode, take the camera from me and hand me a point and shoot, you will be doing me a favor "mode".
Creative Auto: I am the worst kind of idiot, I think I know what I want, but the camera knows better, so I will just tell it how I kinda want things, but maybe I don't , but but but well....
P: Now we are getting somewhere. This should have been the ONLY idiot mode on the camera. In a panic, switch to P, if you want to change, go ahead! When the camera is switched back on, I revert to a safety net.....easy peasy and I leave room for better buttons, like maybe ISO priority (I believe Pentax has this great feature).

Q button...as mentioned in my little tirade above, it lets you look at the LCD to make changes. Great. But did it ever occur to Canon that by the time you go through all the steps, and TAKE YOUR EYE from the viewfinder that little Johnny will be half way down the court, the race car around the bend, the little niece not smiling anymore?? I liked it better when it was "press the info button" on the 50D. Some people like this for tripod work, ok, I can only vaguely see the point, but I will give you this one.

Speaking of all the new and customizable buttons: I am sorry, but Nikon (again, ick!) for YEARS has been whooping on Canon with ergonomics. There is simply a button for every feature you would want, and if it isn't there, there is one or two you can customize to YOUR liking! Metering on Nikon, flip a switch, on Canon, go into a two step process..... etc etc. I am not going to switch, since I think Canon's glass is superior (different topic).

OK: bottom line: I think Canon either tried to do too much with this camera, or more than likely, didn't really listen to/pay attention to what someone in the "pro sumer" category wanted; a great camera with great IQ that was well laid out and well thought out; specifically, the way in which you accessed the features and the amount of them.

Again; I am going to stress here; before you all start the personal attacks on me and my heritage and everyone with the letter "A" in there name born on a Tuesday.....these are MY observations and opinions. I encourage all of you that are interested in a 7D to take this with a grain of salt and really dive into the camera before you buy. These observations may be very helpful to you, and prevent you from making a mistake or purchase you will regret. Then again, maybe not.....

For the time being, I am going to keep my 1DmkII and either look for a price drop on the 5DmkII (an AWESOME camera in every respect except FPS) or sell a kidney and await the 1DmkIV.......

Have a fantastic day all!

[swampler]

Maybe you should tell us how you REALLY feel!

Seriously though, do you feel that 1 day was enough time to get used to the changes?

[Elisha]

Originally Posted by aphotographynut

I would like to take and simply slap the person who decided HOW to get to the focus points to change them. Here is what I mean: They go and put 19 points in (YIPPIE) and then make them "smarter"/better (Bravo). They give you different patterns (caution here) and then let you change them. OK: on every other camera I have had, if you want to change the points, you press the button on the far right with your thumb, then spin a wheel/joystick and you have set your points. Simple no? WRONG. On this camera you press the same button, THEN PRESS a button on the front of the camera (near the shutter release-HORRIBLE SPOT FOR IT CANON) to CYCLE THROUGH ALL THE "MODES" till you get the one you want, and only THEN can you pick a point. This is so moronic, I think it is going to be a complete failure. So; I call Canon to see if I am doing something wrong; nope. The only way to get this to the "old" system of auto/manual (translation faster) is to go into a custom function and "ignore" the other focus programs (groups, orientations, etc.) So, if you do that great, but what did you pay for? Also, I was told that you could get around the issue by pressing the "Q" button, navigating to the focus section, highlighting, then changing to the program you want, then going back to the right button, press it, then scroll to the focus point you want. I am not kidding about this. With all the buttons on the camera that are COMPLETELY useless (for someone who has a basic knowledge of photography), they could have easily came up with something different.

OK you say, simply "re program" one of the many customizable buttons. Nope, not an option. In fact I went through the options of re programing and (again, I STRESS this is personal) I didn't really see where any of theses would be useful. I also confirmed this with a Canon tech (very nice people by the way) that what I wanted to do was simply not possible.

You can reprogram the joystick to change the focus point for you in custom controls.
You can also assign the DOF preview button to the second mode used AF mode as well.
So your main AF mode is already preset and the second AF mode is a button away. For the other 4, you have to go to the menu.

[Elisha]

Originally Posted by aphotographynut

I would like to take and simply slap the person who decided HOW to get to the focus points to change them. Here is what I mean: They go and put 19 points in (YIPPIE) and then make them "smarter"/better (Bravo). They give you different patterns (caution here) and then let you change them. OK: on every other camera I have had, if you want to change the points, you press the button on the far right with your thumb, then spin a wheel/joystick and you have set your points. Simple no? WRONG. On this camera you press the same button, THEN PRESS a button on the front of the camera (near the shutter release-HORRIBLE SPOT FOR IT CANON) to CYCLE THROUGH ALL THE "MODES" till you get the one you want, and only THEN can you pick a point. This is so moronic, I think it is going to be a complete failure. So; I call Canon to see if I am doing something wrong; nope. The only way to get this to the "old" system of auto/manual (translation faster) is to go into a custom function and "ignore" the other focus programs (groups, orientations, etc.) So, if you do that great, but what did you pay for? Also, I was told that you could get around the issue by pressing the "Q" button, navigating to the focus section, highlighting, then changing to the program you want, then going back to the right button, press it, then scroll to the focus point you want. I am not kidding about this. With all the buttons on the camera that are COMPLETELY useless (for someone who has a basic knowledge of photography), they could have easily came up with something different.

OK you say, simply "re program" one of the many customizable buttons. Nope, not an option. In fact I went through the options of re programing and (again, I STRESS this is personal) I didn't really see where any of theses would be useful. I also confirmed this with a Canon tech (very nice people by the way) that what I wanted to do was simply not possible.

You can reprogram the joystick to change the focus point for you in custom controls.
You can also assign the DOF preview button to the second mode used AF mode as well.
So your main AF mode is already preset and the second AF mode is a button away. For the other 4, you have to go to the menu.

Originally Posted by aphotographynut

Metering: Pardon my language but WHAT THE HELL? GIVE ME SPOT METERING that is tied to a FOCUS POINT. The 1D bodies have had this feature for at least 6 years for goodness sake. If you trickle down any feature, this one is HUGE. Nikon (ICK) has had this feature on almost ALL of their cameras since the D200 or so!

Automatic AF Point selection: AE Lock is applied at the AF point that achieved focus.
Manual AF Point selection: AE Lock is applied at the selected AF point.

So in a way you do get spot metering off center if you use AEL on an off center AF point.
More controllable if you use Manual AF Point selection.

[felix.reichardt]

LOL ... you want a cam better than the 5D II with all the 1D features for the price of a 40D?

[aphotographynut]

Swampler: Normally I would agree on the one day thing, but I literally spent hours on it.

Elisha: Not exactly correct on the metering as it was explained to me by a Canon tech. On a 1D body, you select this feature in the menu and poof, every point is tied to metering. On the 7D you have to put the center point on your subject, press the * button to lock exposure, then re compose and take the picture. Great for portraits, poor for sports. This was not a deal killer by any means, but something I grew to love on the 1D.

Again all, I am not saying the camera was junk. Far from it. I am saying that I PERSONALLY did not like the features they gave me, and wanted different ones that they didn't give me. (Another example is video: I DON'T care. Period) I would be curious to see if I am alone in these observations or if there are others that were let down. For those interested in actually getting their hands on one (vs. ordering online and taking your chances) I suggest going to a local camera store (they may have them by now) or doing what I did and going to my local Bestbuy store. Bring in a CF card and snap away in the store, push buttons etc. Don't let my bad experience put you off. Again, this was meant to be taken with a grain of salt...do any of you really think I want to get on an airplane, fly to Japan (I have been there, it is a Looooooong flight) travel to Canon's factory, ask politely for the engineer that designed the focus point system, introduce myself to them and actually slap them?

Also: I LOVE Canon. I have had about 12 cameras from them over the years, including point and shoots, film cameras, DSLR, etc. I own 2 printers of theirs, etc. Their Tech Support, is in my opinion the best.

[aphotographynut]

Felix: Wouldn't that be wonderful?

[Elisha]

Originally Posted by aphotographynut

Elisha: Not exactly correct on the metering as it was explained to me by a Canon tech. On a 1D body, you select this feature in the menu and poof, every point is tied to metering. On the 7D you have to put the center point on your subject, press the * button to lock exposure, then re compose and take the picture. Great for portraits, poor for sports. This was not a deal killer by any means, but something I grew to love on the 1D.

It has to be on Evaluative Metering though. It's on page 106 on the manual.
I wouldn't believe a Canon tech over the manual!

[aphotographynut]

Hi Elisha: I wonder if we are talking about two different things. SPOT metering is dedicated to the center @3% of the viewfinder. If you want to meter on the farthest focus point (say the left) you have to move the camera to the left and get your subject metered on, then press the "*" button, confirm that the green "*" is in the viewfinder, then move, use the left focus point to focus, take the picture.

On the 1D series, you simply select spot metering put the spot where you want it and press the shutter release. No re composing or locking necessary (provided the function is activated).

That said, and since you own one, I am going to look at the manual myself. I would love it if I was wrong on this......

[Elisha]

It may not be as accurate as the 1D series but I believe it does prioritize the metering for the selected AF point as opposed to an Evaluative Metering of the whole frame.
Probably more or a partial metering for the AF point rather than spot metering.
I'll test more in the days to come. Can't play much with it today as I am working.

[umphotography]

i had (2) 40d's and i have a 5d original. sold one of the 40's to get this 7d and im glad i did. iso performance alone was worth the upgrade. im loving this focus system and what this camera is capable of. i have no regrets at all. i took the 5d and the new 7d out ofr some side by side bridal shots and i was completely blown away with the 7d performance,image quality,color. its a huge step up from a 40d,,i would say its on par with the original 5d as far as image quality goes but its very hard to beat a 5d and a 70-200 combo for portrait work. im glad i have both.

[aphotographynut]

UM: Good analogy. I was also thinking of "dumping" my 1D, but after the combination of playing with the 7D and a friends 5DmkII, I realize I need to go "higher" to at least the 5DmkII. Now what I really need is for Max (where are you MAX?) to give me his honest impressions on the 1DmkIII with all the recent fixes/updates for the focus issues of the original vs. the IQ on the 5DmkII. Now that would be an interesting discussion.....

FYI: I have seen some interesting comparisons between the 7D and the equivalent Nikon D300s. Interestingly, the 7D (finally) outperforms Nikon on ISO. If ISO was the only reason to buy a camera (and it is a darn good one) and I didn't have the issues with the ergonomics, button choices, and spot metering I would probably have kept the 7D for the ISO, speed, menu system and great LCD.

[joe_it]

Andy,

Wonderful review. Being a 5D MKII user, I was thinking about downgrading from my 1D MKIII to the 7D. While I love the 1D MK III, I only shoot sports about 15% of the time and tend to favor my 5D MKIII more. I had the pleasure of playing with the 7D at Best Buy and I was really surprised by the feel of the camera. I have to admit, Canon really switched this one up. The feel is a bit different from my other two bodies and I agree that getting used to it is quite different.

I had headr about how they had changed the focal points and patterns in the camera. I am not sure WHY they changed things, it baffles my mind. The AF is supposed to be very good, but it is a pain IMHO to get to them. I would second the vote on having customizeable buttons as well. I have certain things I change all the time and the only way for me to get to it quickly is through the "green" Favorites menu. It is ok, but there are things that could be quicker.

Interesting review, personally it reinforces why I chose NOT to purchase the 7D. I would still recommend it to others and it IS a nice camera, but the few things you mentioned would drive me batty.

Joe

[Max@Home]

Originally Posted by aphotographynut

UM: Good analogy. I was also thinking of "dumping" my 1D, but after the combination of playing with the 7D and a friends 5DmkII, I realize I need to go "higher" to at least the 5DmkII. Now what I really need is for Max (where are you MAX?) to give me his honest impressions on the 1DmkIII with all the recent fixes/updates for the focus issues of the original vs. the IQ on the 5DmkII. Now that would be an interesting discussion...

...I am listening

I testfired the 7D 2 weeks ago. Could it be a 'ad interim' between a 1D3 and an 1D4 ?
Nope, as I would also have to reinvest in 10-22 and 17-55IS to be covered/backed up.

As far as the focus issue is concerned: my biggest niggle was with the selection method, having to use both wheels to get where you want, while I was used to pick AF points with the joystick. A firmware upgrade solved that problem (a new functionality was added, rather than an error repaired, a first one in *my* book since very long...)

But I 'started late' in he lifecycle of the 1D3 (12-2007), when the 'PurpleDot' ( a purple sticker on the box indicating that it has been re-checked and repaired as necessary in-factory for the submirror assy defect, with 1 year extended warranty - for possible damage during the re-opening - as a premium) bodies started to emerge, and the list of affected units was published - me no fools-rush-in w/ €/$ 3.000+ body

And remember I am an 'all-weather' reportage shooter, AF & Drive are mostly in single shot, single-shot mode using Av, Sports isn't my 'metier'

IQ of 5D2 and 1D3 IMO are comparable up to ISO800, from ISO800 on the 5D2 gains, but 1D3 images shot at ISO3200 are perfectly usable, and I seldom need more. If I do, the 5D2 is the favourite

For *me*, my present set is more than adequate, and I have enough 'shots left' on the 1D3, so I might skip the 4 and await the 5... Meanwhile, on a day-to-day basis, I grab the 1D3 + 28-300L IS for the 'unpreparable fieldwork' and use the 5D2 plus more 'dedicated' lens(es) for planned shoots.

Comparing them, and I often shoot them side-by-side indoor (5D2 w/24-70L + 580exII on an CP-E4 and 1D3 w/70-200F2.8L IS + 430exII), the 5D2 feels much like the 20D speed-wise, decent fast, but not super-sexy-speedy like the 1D3. Especially the viewfinder blackout time difference between the two is -very- noticable, and makes the 5D2 feel slower than it is

Handling-wise: with the 1D3 Canon switched the 1D series operating system to the D30/D60/10D/20D/30D/40D/50D/5D/5D2/7D menu&button-press structure/logic, a lot of dedicated 1D2(n) users had a hard time switching , but 'upgraders' - from 40D for me - were delighted and relieved , to -me, coming from a 10D- all feels as a continuous fluent process of progress, evolutionary rather than revolutionary, but that is the price we pay for capitalism and mass production

On a side-note: I like the engraved lines in the Ex-D focusing screens more than the (fatter, less invisible) lines of the LCD-matte of the 7D , but the spirit level is a big plus

...€0.02...

Kindest regards!

Max@Home

[Dirk]

Well i can follow you in this..

my first DSLR was a canon eos 300 D (with hacked firmware) i had great fun using it for amonth or so until the wicked thing started to behave like , some times (rearely not all the time) you could shoot about 7 photo;s without any poroblem whatsoever than all out ouf the blue : flashing battery sign( note : with a good battery) , ok camera off , battery out , counting 1,2,3 .. battery in Presto it worked again (displaying full), one flash shot again a lock .. nothing worked

i thought it was Me who was causing the errors (little did i know that it was the firmware) , i allready had a nikon f65 with glass when i saw the add of a large photo store for professionals that they had a nikon D70.. i bought it but in the first 3 months i sometimes had to prevent my self form smashing it to a wall because it was so darn complicated in the menu structure .. luckily i did not smash it and i like it now as i like my second eos 300d with original firmware ..

[wildviper]

Ok a couple of questions after reading this thread. I am confused.

What exactly is the problem with the focus "selection"? I am not being sarcastic, but just trying to understand.

I am using the joystick to move my focus point around as I did in my previous Nikon D70s. In fact, it is exactly the same way.

of course I have to get my head around all the different focus modes still.

Second, about spot metering. This one I am very interested in. Are you guys/gals saying that the spot metering is NOT where the focus point is? So, if I move my focus point to the farthest left, is the spot metering not from that point too? Or is it?

I am sorry, but I am going through this camera slowly...it is a big JUMP from a D70s.

[Varcy]

I think your detailed observations are very useful. Thank you.

I've always growled about the lack of selectable spot metering on the 50D and was hoping this would be fixed on the 7D. (I heard that it was actually). Yes, I say 'fixed' and mean it as the default should be to meter at the selectef focus point if you have spot metering selected.

This is the first I heard about the FP selection steps. I will most definitely experiment with this as this will drive me mad if there is no work around. Not discounting your attempts, just have to try for myself to see how it feels to me.

Thanks again for the heads up.

Varcy

[aphotographynut]

Hi Varcy and Wild:

My first reply got lost in cyberland..... OK: On the "mode" issue: The OLD system was pretty cool. Either the camera selected the focus point for you or you had to. That simple. To switch modes you pressed the "*" and then dialed (or joysticked) the spot you wanted (or kept going until you saw all points light up, thus switching back to auto mode). DONE. OK, now Canon adds some (IMO useful options) but now totally complicates the way in which you select them. It is a MULTI step process, time consuming and irritating. Of course I "carp" about this to a buddy that has a D700 (had a D300, D200, D70) from Nikon. I hear a chuckle and a "click". He has just switched those modes on his camera. A DEDICATED SWITCH is what was needed, not a switch/LCD/Button fiasco. If you want what the 50D had, you have to (now sit down for this) program OUT those modes on the 7D......

Second; as mentioned in an earlier post (I cannot see who posted now, sorry) the comment was made on metering being 'fixed' on this camera and stated in the manual on a page 106 or so. The answer to this is "not exactly". Metering IS tied to the focus point but ONLY if the following conditions are met: You are in "auto"metering mode and "auto" focus point mode.... (I think the month of the year needs to have an R in it too...). Once you go into a spot meter mode, all bets are off and you go back to the center 2% of the screen). In a way, a "half way" fix.

I guess what I am trying to say is that these features may be useful on a lower end camera. If you are going to put them on a "better" camera, then they should be more easily accessible/changeable, etc. The type of person that is going to be buying this camera is a serious amateur, semi pro (I guess I could be lumped in here), or a pro (probably as a second body). I started with a Rebel, then a Rebel XT(?) then 20D, then 40D, then 50D, then 1DmkII. Each time I was very happy to make the change due to the features I gained/quality, etc. I stress, these are my impressions and everyone is free to disagree, but I think Canon tried to do TOO MUCH with this camera and didn't really do anything particularly well (not counting great ISO performance). More simply put, they tried to make a camera that pleases/works for everyone and fell a little short. Pros will probably not want all the auto features and amateurs will be lost in the maze of auto features!

[aphotographynut]

Max: You are the first person I have seen that has the 28-300. I am considering that as the "best" walk around do everything type of lens (though heavy and expensive). Can you elaborate more on this (or start another post with your observations on it and others chime in)?

[Elisha]

Originally Posted by aphotographynut

Second; as mentioned in an earlier post (I cannot see who posted now, sorry) the comment was made on metering being 'fixed' on this camera and stated in the manual on a page 106 or so. The answer to this is "not exactly". Metering IS tied to the focus point but ONLY if the following conditions are met: You are in "auto"metering mode and "auto" focus point mode.... (I think the month of the year needs to have an R in it too...). Once you go into a spot meter mode, all bets are off and you go back to the center 2% of the screen). In a way, a "half way" fix.

No you do not have to be in Auto 19 point selection mode only. It can be used in manual 19 point selection mode as well. The metering has to be on Evaluative.
Any point that is picked by the auto mode will meter for that point but you have no control since it is auto 19 point selection.
With manual 19 point selection you have control over the metering of the AF point. But it only work with AEL when you are on an off center AF point.

As for the moving of the AF points, you can program the joystick to do that so you do not have to hit any button first. Switching modes is the one with the 2 step process.