Tips to avoid Airline theft or at least get yr money back

[stef@apl]

Originally Posted by goodfellow

No, not true on any count. Insurance is a risk assessment business. They calculate risk and charge a premium appropriate to the risk. If you choose not to pay the premium for apples, then you can't just claim for pears when the apples get taken. That's entirely your decision. For it somehow to be the insurance company's responsibility to control airport security is frankly a hilarious concept.

The issue has nothing to do with theft being the responsibility of the insurance company.

The issue is that it's the airline's responsibility. It has nothing to do with the insurance company, except that the airline is too cheap to insure such items or have security to prevent their theft. The airline lost, or allowed to be taken, items that were in their possession and protection. The airline admits this because they take responsibility for some items, but really, they should take responsibility for ALL items except stupidly-expensive stuff. They need to make it very clear what is not covered, and offer inexpensive at-the-counter insurance for those that need the extra coverage.

The OP wasn't really given a choice to obtain insurance -- he was ambushed at the gate that it was not covered.

This thread is a good wake-up call. But you're blaming the victim when you defend the airlines or insurance companies on this.

[martinsoler]

stef@apl - you are totally right. The insurance company isn't the one who messed up but the airline and that's the whole point. Nobody says anything at the checkin counter. And it's a simple question. "Do you have camera gear or a computer in your bag?" and if so you need to take the extra insurance or opt out and it's at your risk.
I would take the insurance any day.
Problem is that it's not one airline policy - it's the general airline policy and it is also AMEX travel insurance policy too. I thought I was totally covered since it was booked with AMEX and they say all insurance is covered... (but when it's too late they explain that computers and photo gear is not covered).

Well it sure is a wake-up call.

[goodfellow]

Originally Posted by stef@apl

The OP wasn't really given a choice to obtain insurance -- he was ambushed at the gate that it was not covered.

This thread is a good wake-up call. But you're blaming the victim when you defend the airlines or insurance companies on this.

Only in so much as we all have a choice whether or not to read our insurance policy or make a phone call and make sure it covers what we are taking. If it doesn't then don't take the gear, or take out separate insurance on it. Pretty simple stuff really.

But don't blame someone else if you didn't take enough precautions. Yes, I know theft should be stopped and prevented wherever possible, but hey, this is real life. There are naughty people out there. And if I make a fraudulent claim to cover the cost of something I didn't insure, isn't that theft also?

[jerryph]

Originally Posted by goodfellow

And if I make a fraudulent claim to cover the cost of something I didn't insure, isn't that theft also?

I'd like to think so.

[martinsoler]

Originally Posted by goodfellow

Only in so much as we all have a choice whether or not to read our insurance policy or make a phone call and make sure it covers what we are taking. If it doesn't then don't take the gear, or take out separate insurance on it. Pretty simple stuff really.

All photographers probably know by now that none of their gear is insured on flights. But newbies like me have to discover it the hard way - and yet at the check-in counter this could stated. Or even printed on the ticket in big letters. The number of amateur photographers with dslr equipment is rising every year. Probably 1 out of 10 travellers would need to know this information.

And yet in 25 years of flying I had never been informed about this and neither had anyone I knew.

I finally found the data, it's located deep inside the "Contract of Carriage" which exists online only, somewhere within 20 pages of text and it specifically says ANY PHOTOGRAPHY EQUIPMENT.

Originally Posted by goodfellow

But don't blame someone else if you didn't take enough precautions. Yes, I know theft should be stopped and prevented wherever possible, but hey, this is real life. There are naughty people out there.

Yes indeed it is real life, or let's call it welcome to the photographer's life. We can always say the victim of anything should have taken better precautions and we are almost always right about that. I thoroughly agree to that. Don't worry I know at the end of the day one should always point finger to oneself for not having prepared for something.

But this post is a totally different point. Why is it fair that a 4000 USD worth of clothes stolen is reimbursed when 2500 USD worth of camera gear isn't? It's just wrong.

I tried to tell them they could at least reimburse my photo bag and try and fit some of those items under their policy, and at least get me a couple of hundred dollars. Nope - nothing, they just couldn't care less. Yet had it been a suit I would have gotten it all back.

Originally Posted by goodfellow

And if I make a fraudulent claim to cover the cost of something I didn't insure, isn't that theft also?

Great point. Well it's as much theft as it is not their responsibility to remedy. It's a change of significance - had it been a suit, they would be responsible. But it is camera gear so they aren't?

Let's take one step back on the symantics, bottom line is 2500 USD worth of someone's property was stolen while that property was entrusted to a company (who is being paid a great price to transport it) and the company who was entrusted with the property should do something to remedy that. The significance of what was stolen is irrelevant.

Well there's my 5 cents.

PS: No intention of starting some debate here or "battle" with other members. Hope this doesn't get interpreted as such.

[TwoSevensClash]

Now that I think of it, I'm taking a trip to Alaska later this summer. I figure that potentially valuable checked items visible at the X-ray baggage scanner act like thief magnets; e.g., checked laptops always disappear.

For this trip I'd want to take a tripod, a very light Gitzo carbon fiber. Will that show up on the airport's X-ray baggage scanner?

[Austen]

Something I know something about

I had a webbing strap made up for my cases,it's a real PITA to put on and take off the case.

People "raiding" your case are on a strict time-frame, basically it's open it a crack, have a feel and shut it back down again.

If it's going to take them 60 seconds to open your case they just aren't going to have the time.

Contrary to what you might think, it's really busy behind the scenes at your typical airport and the average bag-thief just doesn't have the luxury of a lot of time.

As to thinking that the x-ray equipment is used to plan what to steal, it just doesn't happen like that.

The person monitoring the screen is typically on a dead-man control so they aren't leaving their station to open your bags, and unless there's a large conspiracy between the staff, unlikely with the amount of CCTV behind-the-scenes, there just isn't that much time...........

Austen.

[stef@apl]

Originally Posted by Austen

I had a webbing strap made up for my cases,it's a real PITA to put on and take off the case.

People "raiding" your case are on a strict time-frame, basically it's open it a crack, have a feel and shut it back down again.

If it's going to take them 60 seconds to open your case they just aren't going to have the time.

TSA certainly cuts locks regularly, and will pry open any case that has a combination lock on the latch that they want to inspect. I can't believe they wouldn't cut the webbing if they really wanted to inspect your bags.

[UgashikBob]

Some very good information here and most of it falls under the "let the buyer beware catergory". I also think it is dillusional to think an insurance company is motivated in any manner to serve anything but its bottom line. To replace a high dollar suit versus a high dollar camera is cheap PR based on statistics. When you read the fine print on your ticket the only thing they really guarantee is to take your money.
What amazes me is that in this age of electronic monitoring that theft like this can occur. If the statistcs of which airlines and which routes that had the highest theft rates were published maybe savvy shoppers could motivate the airlines. I've never had photography equipment stolen on airlines but I've had several other things stolen and it always seemed to me that enforcement was not a strong point in this. It is far more cost effective to push the problem on to the consumer than fix it.

[Austen]

Originally Posted by stef@apl

TSA certainly cuts locks regularly, and will pry open any case that has a combination lock on the latch that they want to inspect. I can't believe they wouldn't cut the webbing if they really wanted to inspect your bags.

Oh absolutely, They'd cut it in a heartbeat !!

My point is that "secure" webbing will stop any opportunistic bag-feeler.

If "security", either TSA / airline / private contractors, are going to rip you off, there's going to be a bunch of them involved as they always work in "teams".

I know of one such "team", there are four on the team, so that there is *ALWAYS* three people present (so one can go to the bathroom, meal breaks, etc) but he "Three people present" rule is 110% enforced.

If the scanner-operator saw something in your bag he wanted to pinch, he would need the cooperation of at least the other two, all the while working under CCTV.

Whereas someone working alone in an aircraft hold could have the opportunity to quickly pop open a case and have a feel .................