events for this weekend

[pro]

So i finally have my company up and running... Basically we take pictures at events and sell them back to people via our website..

Because I am new to this, I am curious about a getting a vendors permit at certain functions...

Example.. there is an outdoor street festival this weekend, but you have to have a $5 ticket to attend. Would I be ok to buy a ticket and attend the event taking random photos and handing out business cards? Or is because they are charging admission, am i required to havepermission to take pics

Here is the fine print on the ticket:
REFUND POLICY

Refunds cannot be made after purchase. Xorbia Tickets will issue refunds ONLY if an event is cancelled in its entirety.



RELEASE OF LIABILITY AND ASSUMPTION OF RISK AGREEMENT

In consideration of being granted access to the event and use of event facilities in addition to the payment of any fee or charge, I, the user of this ticket, for myself and on behalf of my estate, trustees, heirs and assigns, HEREBY RELEASE AND HOLD HARMLESS, USA Entertainment Inc., Xorbia Technologies Inc., and all other sponsors and their respective owners, directors, officers, agents, employees, successors, and assigns ("Releases"), from any and all claims, losses, injuries or damages to persons or property, and from liability for injury, disability, or death, and from costs (including reasonable attorney's fees), WHETHER CAUSED BY THE NEGLIGENCE OF THE RELEASEES OR OTHERWISE, that arise out of or in any way relate to the event and/or my attendance at the event, except those claims arising out of the wanton and willful misconduct of the Releases. I further accept, assume and incur all responsibility for the risk of injury, disability, or death arising out of or in any way related to the event or my attendance at the event.

This event & its activities will be photographed and/or video recorded. By purchasing tickets to this event you grant USA Entertainment Inc., event production & promotional partners and all contracted photographer & video companies for USA Entertainment Inc(“the Companies”) the right to use your name, biographical data, portrait, photograph, voice, or likeness in any form in whole or in part, for advertising, promotional, or trade purposes related to the Companies products and services in any and all media, without territorial, time, use, or other limitation, and without additional compensation, notification or permission. You further release the Companies from all liabilities arising out of any distortion or faulty mechanical productions of your likeness, and agree that any and all materials, storage mediums and recordings, regardless of form, containing your likeness and or voice and shall remain the property of the Companies.

Also by purchasing tickets to this event allows USA Entertainment Inc & all event production partners the permission to contact you via by email or mail in the future in regards to promoting other events of any type nature.

I HAVE READ THIS RELEASE OF LIABILITY AND ASSUMPTION OF RISK AGREEMENT, FULLY UNDERSTAND ITS TERMS, UNDERSTAND THAT I WAIVE SUBSTANTIAL RIGHTS BY CLICKING THE ACCEPTANCE OF TERMS BUTTON (which shall be deemed my signature to this Agreement), AND CLICK THE ACCEPTANCE OF TERMS BUTTON FREELY AND VOLUNTARILY WITHOUT ANY UNDUE INFLUENCE.

Nowhere in this fine print on the ticket does it say that there is no soliciting or anything about a vendor permit

HELP.. Thanks

PRO

[brian.austin]

You need to contact the event organizers directly. Tickets wouldn't typically mention vendor permits.

[KmH]

Originally Posted by pro

This event & its activities will be photographed and/or video recorded. By purchasing tickets to this event you grant USA Entertainment Inc., event production & promotional partners and all contracted photographer & video companies for USA Entertainment Inc(“the Companies”) the right to use your name, biographical data, portrait, photograph, voice, or likeness in any form in whole or in part, for advertising, promotional, or trade purposes related to the Companies products and services in any and all media, without territorial, time, use, or other limitation, and without additional compensation, notification or permission. You further release the Companies from all liabilities arising out of any distortion or faulty mechanical productions of your likeness, and agree that any and all materials, storage mediums and recordings, regardless of form, containing your likeness and or voice and shall remain the property of the Companies.

Yep, contact them.

It would seem that if you don't contact the event producers you could run afowl of the terms negotiated by the "contracted photographers" and wind up in a unscheduled meeting with security and/or local law enforcement.

[pro]

UPDATE

I contacted the event producers and got the OK to take and sell pics..

[Arved]

I'd be interested in hearing if (and how) you can make this work profitably. I've had no success with online sales of any kind. I think David Ziser sums it up best:

"Here’s the deal gang – READ MY LIPS!!!
"Unless you are pro-actively involved with your client during the selection process, EXPECT YOUR SALE TO GO NOWARE (sic) !!!" (see Digital ProTalk: Sales)

I've shot events, handed out cards, and although I've noticed planty of hits on the gallery (and the images were protected from right-click download), ended up with zero sales from the events. I was using SmugMug Pro, and couldn't make enough money to pay for the hosting.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but if you can figure out how, please let me know. My only other thought was that SmugMug was making sales, and not reporting (or paying me) for them.

When I sell in person, my sales are dramatically higher than using on-line proofing, which bears out Mr. Ziser's comments. However, I also realize that at events like this, there is no practical way to do this. You have no choice but to make this work, which is why I'm interested in learning how you'll make this successful.

[pro]

Arved..
There are many things that go into making this type of business profitable... First is hard work and determination.

You cant hide behind your camera, you have to talk to people.. There are so many ways to branch out from "just handing out business cards". This type of business can lead to contracts with event planners, aerial photography, studio work, etc. etc etc.

That is all i am going to say for now...

[pro]

I read the blog Digital ProTalk: Sales that you posted and noticed it was speaking about WEDDING photography specifically.. I can see that this could apply to event photography, but it seems that I am not in the business of selling whole galleries to one person. More having many many people purchase one photo. (total opposite of wedding photography)

As far as your sales.. I would hope that smugmug was not doing that as it is THEFT. Two, how long did you have your business up and running, and how much effort did you put forward. Do you have a good personality, or do you hide behind your camera? Did you set up a vendor booth and have banner, flyer, make a donation to the cause?? or did you just walk around and take pics??

[Arved]

I get along well with people. I'm not a schmoozer, but I don't hide behind the camera, either. I'd hand out the cards and put them on the tables at events, and I'd talk them up with the guests, but I stopped short of having banners and tables. These were events such as retirement ceremonies, a New Years Eve party, and a other social functions. Having a banner or table would have been out of place, and manning the table would have prevented me from mingling with the crowd and getting the photos in the first place - I didn't think this discussion was about having a photobooth at an event (for which I'm sure a vendor permit would be required, as you'd need to rent the space for the booth/table/display).

I had the SmugMug pro account for 1 year trying this (and I've been in business since 199. I wasn't trying to sell wedding photos of the couple to the guests. I was trying to sell photos of event participants to the event participants.

People seemed happy with just seeing thier images on line. Plenty of hits - lots of image views - very few sales.

Price wasn't an issue. As a test, I took the photos from a retirement party and put them on-line with a cost of 1 cent above the price of the photo. IOW, a 4x6 was priced at 20 cents and cost me 19 cents, to eliminate the price factor, and still be able to track sales (SmugMug actually recommends this, as they have no other way to report sales). Lots of hits. Zero sales. I even had the organizer provide a follow up e-mail with a thank you to the guests for attending, and including a link to purchase the photos.

I have had some success with on-line orders for portraits, but sales have lagged far behind when I'm actively involved with the client in the ordering process. This leads me to believe that a buyer has to be really motivated to purchase a print on-line. A casual interest is satisfied by the on-line viewing experience. There's more desire to buy the print when there's no on-line presence of the image.

So, from what you've said, I've eliminated just about every other barrier to making this work aside from my charisma. Fair enough.

I'm not saying Smugmug stole from me. I have no evidence that happened. What I can say is that even though people went online and saw my images, very very few were sold, and I couldn't make the system profitable for me. The only other explination is that I was successfull in selling my images, but SmugMug didn't report those sales to me.

Warmest regards,

[pro]

Originally Posted by Arved

So, from what you've said, I've eliminated just about every other barrier to making this work aside from my charisma. Fair enough.

Arved,

I have no doubt that your charisma is genuine and you are an excellent photographer.. I have experienced the same thing in the 2 weeks i have been up and running... over 20,000 hits and 3 sales.... although 3 sales after shooting 2 events in 2 weeks i guess isnt bad.. i am still learning how people buy... one of my sales was from my first shoot 2 weeks ago and the sale happened today.

I would think that most sales would be in the first 48 hours, but so far i have been prove wrong. I am not sure about the pricing thing... I think it boils down to TYPE OF EVENT...

I noticed you shot fairly private events or so you said.. retirement parties etc... I have been focusing my attention on more public and large events such as Halloween parades, and town fall festivals, large street parties, etc.... REMEMBER, you want to sell one photo to many many people, not a whole gallery to one person!!! keep that in mind when you choose your events!

I am shooting a friends Halloween party this weekend and a portion of the proceeds are going to a charity which I think will add to sales. I think if you get in with the producers of the events , which i have learned is a GREAT thing from the get go.. it will lead to additional sales and an exclusive contracts in the future!!!

I also think that sports is huge... all of my peers have told me that they have purchased photos while they were performing in sports. From tri athelons to bike races...

So in conclusion based on what you told me, I would be more selective in your events and shoot at larger gathering.. preferably where people are drinking and having a good time, or competing at the peak of their ability..

what do you think

[Songman45]

Pro,
I wish you the very best in your endeavor. I am an event photographer and my specialties are equestrian and motocross. I also cover other events. In my business model I provide on-site fulfillment and I have a website storefront. If I depended entirely on the on-line sales, I'd be broke. Emotion plays a huge part in event photography. The excitement of the moment diminishes quickly and if there is no sense of urgency to purchase there will be fewer sales.

20,000 hits and two sales is not stellar performance. I find that if people feel they can look for free they feel no need in purchasing. Sure, it feels good to the beginner to know that his work is being looked at thousands of times but those views do not pay the rent. Someone may have sold the idea that all that exposure is good advertising. In reality the majoirty of the advertising is going to non-paying viewers. The promotion is "Free window shopping over here" and you'll end up playing to a dead-beat audience.

Choose your events carefully. Take pictures that people will want as keepsakes and that are worth buying. Keep the emotion and the sense of urgency working for you. Otherwise you'll be doing nothing more than standing on a corner with a tin cup taking pennies from the generous.

Steve

[pro]

steve,

could you tell me more about onsite fulfillment

[Songman45]

Originally Posted by pro

steve,

could you tell me more about onsite fulfillment

Sure,

We set-up viewing stations and an editing/printing station. Participants come by view the images, make their purchases and leave with their products. In the majority of our venues, we are given periodic announcements. We also appear on the host's website in the program and place sample images in high traffic areas. One of our representatives wander around and make contact directly with participants and sort of work the crowd.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

Steve

[pro]

Do you spend a lot of money on a vendor booth? What is your average cost for the space?I looked into a booth for a street festival in my community and it was $350 for the day.. I have paid as low as $20 in some small town venues.

How about printing machine and ink and paper.. Is that expensive? Is it difficult to move? How about power? do you have a generator for your onsite fulfillment work??

Sorry for all the q's, but I am very curious. Thank you for your time

Pro

[Songman45]

Not a problem. First, I haven't paid a vendor fee for any event. I choose my events carefully. Sometimes a little negotiation works wonders, such as providing images for the event management in exchange for the job. I've found that products cost me less than cash.

My approach is that I am answering a need the management has, rather than coming into the event as a vendor. I become the event's "official photographer" providing a service for the event and in exchange I get to take and sell images. I'd rather be a part of the event than just another vendor renting a booth.

My expansion plan includes a trailer outfitted to do my business in. This will include having a generator so I can supply my own electricty when I choose events where power is not available. To date, the event provides me space and electricty as part of our arrangement.

Are printers, paper and ink expensive? That is a question to be answered by the individual. It is not prohibitively expensive. Like any business, the cost of equipment and inventory figures into the cost of doing business and is recovered in the pricing structure of the products sold. For example the price I charge for an 8X10 print is caluclated by considering all the costs involved. If an event will not support the price I have to charge, I don't do that event.

Is the equipment difficult to move? Again, this depends upon what one considers difficult. This past weekend I set up a viewing station and a production station, a studio and did roving coverage of an event with a camera and bracekted flash unit. Set-up and tear-down took less than two hours total. Some of the labor involved is dependent on orginizational skill and having a system for setting up a location.

I hope that helps answer some of your questions.

Steve