Softball, Dancing, Lighting and Printing

[iflynething]

My aunt told me about a guy with her neice's softball team that wanted me to do the shots for his entire softball unit. By unit, I hear there will be 7 softball teams and this might lead to football and cheerleading photos. I have called the guy 4 times, left 3 voicemails and he has not returned my phone calls...

My sister is in dance (and I"m completely involved in it too). They (the dancers, the parents AND the dance studio owner) have been VERY unsatisfied with the quality and mainly the attitude of the photographer they have had for the past years. They are non personal and seem to come in, take the picture and leave, then come back to do it again next year. I tried to get some stuff together last year for the studio shots but was unable to, so the other photographer did them as usual - and, as usual, most people were dissatisfied. It seems as though they get the pictures from them....well, just because. Technically as far as lighting goes they are great. The guy uses a D70 or 70s and knows what he is doing, he is just not fun to work with....for anyone.

Along with talking about lighting, I do not have any equipment. If the softball guy will contact me back, I would love to work with him. While both of these things are not out the possibility for me to do, I am wondering if it would be better just to rent lighting or buy some. I am back and forth with this because I have considered opening a studio. I could buy it and have it for that use, or just rent it. Either way, I think I would be making enough to pay for equipment -whether it was rented or bought.

One other concern I have is the delivery. The dance photographer has sleeves (for lack of a better word) that says "Portraits" and some designs on it. I have plenty of time to get whatever I would need together, together. Where I would print the prints. There would be alot. About 200 individual pictures for the dance and who knows for the softball. I heard there are about 12-15 girls on each team. So I'm looking at some 8x10s of that plus all of the individual photos...not to mention all of the individual prints I would have along with the group shots for the dance.

I am not completely uncomfortable shooting the softball shots and have NO problem shooting the dance. I'm just concerned mainly about getting myself into too much. Like I said, I would have plenty of time to get things together since none of this would happen until next May for the dance shots and probably about the same time for the softball. Since I haven't talked to the guy, I don't know if he wants the shots before or after the season is over. As for the dancing, I would need to come up with packages (which going over with my girlfriend who also dances said should be cheap!), printing out enough copies for everyone, and just having general orgainization for people to order. Last year, the photography was done over a week. Distributing the different classes over different days to make it not as hectic.

What are your thoughts?

~Michael~

[korman]

You sound very confused.

Have checked the business side of those jobs and whether you can and want to produce the price you desire?

Korman

[iflynething]

Originally Posted by korman

Have checked the business side of those jobs and whether you can and want to produce the price you desire?

Korman

What do you mean by this last part?

I am not confused as much as taking it all in as to what all this would include doing? I am very confident that I can do it

~Michael~

[korman]

I just mean, if you're expected to undercut the other photographer, will it be worth the time and effort for what you get?

Korman

[iflynething]

I am definitly not looking to undercut the other photographer. My prices in the end, will probably be the same

~Michael~

[Rosko2]

Hi Michael,

It sounds like you are very good at the planning stages of things you are about to jump into, which is good.

Wonder if you just do the dance shoot this time around and waiting for the next year to pursue the softball gig? You say yourself that the dance gig would be no problem for you, but the softball gig might not be as comfortable. I would use your planning expertise for the dance gig, cut your teeth on that, and take what you learn and apply it to other things you may not be as comfortable with, the like softball gig, in the future. That way you could learn how to deal with clients and see how they react with any pricing and/or packages you are thinking about offering, along with learning any possible "quirks" that may arise with the printing lab you may go with. I would probably also rent lighting this time around. Call me cheap(i prefer frugal ), but I hate to spend money not associated with my "photography fund" and justify it by saying, "heck, I'll make that money back on the the next shoot." I prefer to rent if I have to until I do "that next shoot" then lay down the cold hard cash for something I need after the fact. That's just me.

And one more thing...Take comments on this board with a grain of salt. Use what is useful and helpful and disregard the rest...Especially people that are negative 99% of the time.

Good luck and let us know what you end up doing!

[iflynething]

Originally Posted by Rosko2

Hi Michael,

It sounds like you are very good at the planning stages of things you are about to jump into, which is good.

Wonder if you just do the dance shoot this time around and waiting for the next year to pursue the softball gig? You say yourself that the dance gig would be no problem for you, but the softball gig might not be as comfortable. I would use your planning expertise for the dance gig, cut your teeth on that, and take what you learn and apply it to other things you may not be as comfortable with, the like softball gig, in the future. That way you could learn how to deal with clients and see how they react with any pricing and/or packages you are thinking about offering, along with learning any possible "quirks" that may arise with the printing lab you may go with. I would probably also rent lighting this time around. Call me cheap(i prefer frugal ), but I hate to spend money not associated with my "photography fund" and justify it by saying, "heck, I'll make that money back on the the next shoot." I prefer to rent if I have to until I do "that next shoot" then lay down the cold hard cash for something I need after the fact. That's just me.

And one more thing...Take comments on this board with a grain of salt. Use what is useful and helpful and disregard the rest...Especially people that are negative 99% of the time.

Good luck and let us know what you end up doing!

Hey thanks for the comments. You're not cheap. I'm cheap. I never like to justify buying something because I'll make it back. I can rent it for cheaper, make back the less money I had to spend on renting it plus more - what I would have spent on actually buying the equipment.

I have to photography buddies that might let me use theirs. One never lets me use his lenses (the guy shoots with a D3 has about $30-40,000 in other equipment) but has the other lighting and might let me use it. I KNOW the other one will let me rent his. I have used PLENTY of his lenses and rented his entire studio. I'm sure if I give him enough advance notice it shouldn't be a problem.

I do think that the softball might be a little bit of an overkill and may - like you said - just stick with the dance. I know ALL of the parents and am always around the studio, as well as doing the photography for the competition shots, the studio would be an added bonus. . .

As with all business, I'm trying to make the most profit. Renting now and buying later would be one step at attaining that goal.

I think I could find out alot about what works and what doesn't by just doing the dance stuff. I still haven't talked to the softball guy so I don't even know if that will work and how he wants to do thing - even how serious he is about me doing it.

~Michael~

[iflynething]

I don't think I am going to do the softball. I haven't heard much from the guy getting it all together. He seems to be very hard to get in touch with.

All the times I have called him, he is at a game and he has to get back with me. Since there are games now, I assume they would want the picture this year since softball isn't a winter sport. I would not be able to get everything together in that short amount of time and definitly wouldn't want to rush it.

~Michael~

[iflynething]

Update guys:

Still haven't heard from the softball guy. I'm going to cut my losses and just forget about him. I have left him 1 more message and am not going to deal with it again.

As for the dance photography, I have been able to talk some with the owner. Sometime after Christmas, we are going to get together for a while and talk things through. She was able to find a price sheet from the other photographer with his different packages.

Also, she mentioned that many of the parents mentioned something about being able to view the images. To me, this is a double sided sword. On one hand, they might see it and not be happy with the image, asking me to take it again, which I probably wouldn't do because the kids (the younger ones) aren't smiling or just for whatever reason they come up with. On the other hand, well I can only see that they will either like or not like the image and that will be time consuming. The dance studio owner suggested maybe setting up a time the following week (the actual picture portion will be a week process) and have set appointments. I think this actually might work, but it's still in the works. The competition parents know the type or work I do, so I wouldn't' expect them to ask for an appointment. I think a viewing on the LCD might do - if that. I will have more appointments for viewing - if I even do it - from the parents I do not know and don't really even know me. For compeition photos, I sell them at $4/img burned to CD with a photo release. I have felt for the past 2 years I am undercutting myself and will probably raise that per image price. Anyways, coinciding with the posed shot, I though of buying a large LCD tv and keep it in the studio. When a competition parent wanted to view pictures from a recent competition, I can hook my laptop to the TV and viewing would be MUCH better. I would also use this TV once it came time for parents to view the posed pictures.

Another thing, I would like to offer different products. I will have compeittive prices if not the same as what the previous photographer offered. I also want to do things like magnets and keychains and pins (the big round ones with the picture in the center). I will be printing from mpix and will probably do their Pro account. The only things I see that people may be interested in are the magnets and keychains. If you think I could sell others, let me know. I told the studio owner I considered putting a sheet in the lobby and have the parents write down what they would like to have offered. Would that work? I figure they would put down the usual like the magnets, but I might have some other off the wall responses. If they demand is there, I will find a way to provide for them.

I can't think of anything else to say.

Thanks everyone for all the help so far! I appreciate it greatly

~Michael~

[swift_wraith]

Originally Posted by iflynething

snip...
The competition parents know the type or work I do, so I wouldn't' expect them to ask for an appointment. I think a viewing on the LCD might do - if that.
~Michael~

Have you considered a viewing via your laptop? I find the LCD far too small for the untrained eye. Plus a bigger image may result in increased sales.