Can I sell my photos legally??

[willowbridge]

Hi everyone! I'm still very new at photography and I'm not sure about the legalities of selling my photos sometimes. I have a question about selling high school sporting event shots.

My daughter is on her high school volleyball team. The school has a contract with a large studio for their yearbook and team sport photos. The studio DOES NOT shoot their actual sporting events. As a parent, I take my camera to the games and have gotten some great action shots of the girls. I was going to post them on my site and sell prints and then take a portion of the sales and give back to the volleyball booster club. The school shot this down if we "advertised" it as a fundraiser, but I think - as a parent - I should be able to sell my photos if they are taken at a public event. I know parents that were photographers have done this in the past. I don't know if they just didn't get caught or if it was their right to do so.

Since it's on school property, does this make a difference?

Thanks for any input!

[cyclohexane]

School events are not "public", regardless of whether you are at a public school or not. As you said yourself, the event was on school property. These events are considered "closed" even if admission is not charged, and as a parent you shouldn't be selling images unless the school allows you to do so.

The contract with the studio might have some rather comprehensive non-competition clauses in it, which would prevent the school from granting you the right to sell your photos, or at least, scare the school into not allowing you to do so for fear of breaching the contract. If the studio does not actually shoot the events like you said, and such a clause exists, you can probably work something out with them to allay the school's fears or whatever issues there might be. Let's say the studio tells you "Yeah, it's cool, go for it," and tells the school the same thing, then you should be fine. As long as they're comfortable with it (it's not really costing them anything because they're not attending and photographing the events in the first place), the school should be okay with your fundraiser.

This is actually a bit of a gray area in business, as many newspapers sell reprints of published images. Some high school districts (i.e. IHSA in Illinois) try to control access to the events by dictating what happens to the images before granting credentials, and I've heard of athletics departments attempting to demand copies of all images for their use.

[Douglas]

Im not a lawyer, but I THINK it would be ok. You arent selling to the school, which is who purchased the rights to the photos. Now if they sell the photos to the students/parents, then you might have a sticking point.

Well, scratch that. See what Cyclo said. You could always contact the company. Being you are in the SE, would I be right in assuming its Brynn Alan? Id say call the school, but chances are they really wont know. They could say yes and be wrong (or say no and be wrong) unless you speak to the right person. For my school, this was the yearbook advisor.

[willowbridge]

Thanks everyone. This is kind of what I figured. No, the studio is Strawbridge Studios. And I have no idea how strict or picky they are.

I think I'm going to keep on snapping and see what happens. I'll be taking photos anyway because my daughter is on the team. If other parents want to buy shots of their daughters from me, I will let them! I guess if administration at the school says anything, I will deal with it then. The season is over the first week of October anyway.

[Olygirl]

Sounds pretty shady. How can you gain a respectable reputation without following the rules?

If you were taking pics of my kid and trying to sell them to me, I'd be extremely upset.

[swampler]

Originally Posted by willowbridge

Hi everyone! I'm still very new at photography and I'm not sure about the legalities of selling my photos sometimes. I have a question about selling high school sporting event shots.

My daughter is on her high school volleyball team. The school has a contract with a large studio for their yearbook and team sport photos. The studio DOES NOT shoot their actual sporting events. As a parent, I take my camera to the games and have gotten some great action shots of the girls. I was going to post them on my site and sell prints and then take a portion of the sales and give back to the volleyball booster club. The school shot this down if we "advertised" it as a fundraiser, but I think - as a parent - I should be able to sell my photos if they are taken at a public event. I know parents that were photographers have done this in the past. I don't know if they just didn't get caught or if it was their right to do so.

Since it's on school property, does this make a difference?

Thanks for any input!

Sounds like the schools only problem is that you can't call it a "fundraiser." I doubt it would be a problem to have the photos on your site for sale and just let the other parents know via word of mouth. I know several photographers in the area, myself included, that sell our action shots online and most parents are glad to get them.

DISCLAIMER: Contact an attorney to find out for sure. Advice over the internet is worth exactly what you pay for it. Nothing.

[swampler]

Originally Posted by Olygirl

Sounds pretty shady. How can you gain a respectable reputation without following the rules?

If you were taking pics of my kid and trying to sell them to me, I'd be extremely upset.

Only thing the school said was that she couldn't call it a fund raiser. Why would you be upset if you had a chance to get action shots of your kid? You wouldn't have to buy them...or are you just wanting them for free?

[willowbridge]

Actually, I AM trying to follow the rules. Thus my posted thread here. The school will not allow us to ADVERTISE a fundraiser for fear of violating a contract with the studio. I just wanted to know what the legal aspect of selling my photos is in this situation outside of the fundraising.

I have some awesome shots of the games, and parents have come to ME and offered to buy them. That's where this all started. I did not go to them. They are excited and cannot wait to see the photos after each game. They are even more excited as I have offered to donate money to our booster club personally from the sales even if we cannot use it as a school fundraiser.

I don't think this is "shady" at all.

[willowbridge]

Thanks swampler.

[Olygirl]

I misread it, sorry about that.

[sniper3450]

I, as a parent, can take as many photos that I want... that is, if I focus only on my child/athlete. However, you as a parent do not have the right to photograph other child/athletes, unless they appear as "incidentals" in the aforementioned photos. I would not be happy at all if you took photos of my child/athlete and placed them on a webpage without my consent. Most School District events are "closed" with limited access to news media and school staff photographers that have contracted with the district for "rights" to film, photograph and write about said events. It is always best to get involved with the school district early in the year to sit down and talk about what the rules are and what it is exactly you want.

With all that said and done... I was able to walk on the field at the bequest of a parent seeking photos of her son during a Baseball playoff game. I am well known locally and other parents asked for photos as well during the game. I was able to sell the photos to the individual parents at a substantial profit. This was probably a "one time" opportunity, never to be repeated.

[KmH]

Originally Posted by sniper3450

I, as a parent, can take as many photos that I want... that is, if I focus only on my child/athlete. However, you as a parent do not have the right to photograph other child/athletes, unless they appear as "incidentals" in the aforementioned photos.

Who says? I mean what authority?

[sniper3450]

There is no set authority other than the folks who run the leagues, events. The reply I gave was a conglomeration of all answers and permissions given me by those who are in charge of general events. Each event will no doubt have an individual set of rules governing the "intrusive" photographer. I also cite from legal teams in the area of copyright laws (where minors are concerned). Also, it is wise to obtain a model release for each and every person you photograph during an event.

[swampler]

I've typically found that most schools have parents give permission for their players to be photographed as part of their paperwork to play at the beginning of the season because the school knows there will be media, yearbook photographers, and photogs from the other team as well.

I've also never run across a parent that was unhappy that their child's picture had been taken and posted for sale, in fact, most are thrilled.

Players on a field, minor or not, have no right to privacy on the field, so they are as much fair game as anyone else. There is absolutely nothing illegal about taking their picture, your kid or not. Colleges and pro teams have terms and conditions for their credentials and tickets, so this does not apply to them (you can take their picture, but generally can't sell them at the college/pro level).

[Songman45]

I'm with Steve on this one. In three years I've only been approached by one parent who asked that her child's pictures be removed from the web site. This had to do with a divorce and custody battle and the mom didn't want the estranged husband to see the pictures.

This is one nutty world we live in. A huge percentage of parents love seeing and buying photos of their children involved in what ever intersts they have. But the folks most capable of taking those photos are brow beaten and called "intrusive photographers".

[TheShooter]

Photo Attorney Research this site. Every photographer should have a copy of her book. There is no reasonable expectation of privacy at any school event. Paid to attend or not. The only place on school property that one can expect privacy is the locker room or bathroom. Take all the pictures you want. Also, the photography company the school signed a contract with is a two party contract. You are not a party to that contract. And the school district cannot injected that contract on you

[TheShooter]

Now the sticker. Make darn sure you have a sales tax number and any local business licenses required by law. Yes in 99.9% of all states you will be required to collect sales tax on the finished product. Here in Missouri I had to pay a bond with the Department of Revenue- $100.00 , A country license $50.00 per year and the city license $25.00 per year.

[PetsPhotography]

Wow, I am surprised at all the misinformation given here. Willowbridge, a suggestion....if you want to know what you can and can't do legally in regards to taking and selling photographs, consult an attorney who specializes in photographic and/or copyright law.

Keep in mind there are Federal, State, County, and City statutes that govern various aspects of the issues surrounding your question. A few comments offered good advice. Selling a product may require not only a business license from your local municipality, but a mandatory Certificate Of Authority" to collect sales tax, and if you earn more than $600.00 you must report income to the IRS. Once you get a state Certificate of Authority you have to file for sales taxes even if you have no sales. Would you be doing business as a sole proprietership or LLC? You may need a temporary sales Permit, you may need a Vending License. You may need to get an EIN form the Federal Government.

In normal conditions it is legal to take pictures of anyone in a public situation. What you can do with those photos is a whole nother story.

Look for an attorney who has expertise in the areas of intellectual property, libel, privacy, right to publicity and the First Amendment.

Even though it may not seem like it, if you want to make a profit on the pictures you take (even if you donate the proceeds) what you want to do is start a small business and there are few things as complicated as starting a simple business.

Of course if you wanted to take the pictures and give them out digitally while suggesting the parents make a contribution to the Volleyball Booster Club, that's another story.

Richie

[ll3rd]

Originally Posted by willowbridge

Hi everyone! I'm still very new at photography and I'm not sure about the legalities of selling my photos sometimes. I have a question about selling high school sporting event shots.

My daughter is on her high school volleyball team. The school has a contract with a large studio for their yearbook and team sport photos. The studio DOES NOT shoot their actual sporting events. As a parent, I take my camera to the games and have gotten some great action shots of the girls. I was going to post them on my site and sell prints and then take a portion of the sales and give back to the volleyball booster club. The school shot this down if we "advertised" it as a fundraiser, but I think - as a parent - I should be able to sell my photos if they are taken at a public event. I know parents that were photographers have done this in the past. I don't know if they just didn't get caught or if it was their right to do so.

Since it's on school property, does this make a difference?

Thanks for any input!

Since I dont know where you are, I can only answer for the general area of 90 percent of the continental US.

The first big issue is NOT whether the property on which the games take place is public or private.

If photography is allowed, then the photos you take are YOURS the instant you press the shutter. (copyright law)

The second big issue is whether you can sell the photos.

If you are allowed to take them, you are allowed to sell them UNLESS you use them for a "Commercial purpose". This means used to promote as product or service.

Using the photos to promote or support the "Booster" group could (and probably would) be interpreted as a commercial purpose.

However, and this is a BIG deal, selling the photos is NOT a commercial purpose as it applies to your "work product" as a photographer.

For the mother that objects to strangers photographing her child... Your protection from this is simple.. Dont put the child out there to be photographed!

I know it sounds harsh, but in order to HAVE freedom, the freedom has to be applied even to a photographer.

Children are photographed ALL THE TIME while performing in sports activities on school grounds all over the country.

Shooting "EVENTS" is what I've been doing for a very long time...

The very first rule of "Event Shooting" is checking with the final authority in charge of the venue on which the event takes place. (Hint, this does NOT mean the rent-a-cop who might be on the grounds)

In general, since you haven't been stopped from taking photos--- photography is allowed (but check anyway). The "final authority" over what takes place on "school grounds" varies from town to town. I dont know who is in charge in my town, I've never bothered to check on it.. I simply show up, take the photos, then go home and sell them, both on-line, and in person.

No one has ever questioned me about it, but then Ive been showing up around town with a camera in my hands, on and of, since 1959.

I have had to consult with an attorney from time to time, over this very subject, involving events other than school sports, and believe it or not, for most of the contiguous U.S. the Sum of the Law is:

If you can legally TAKE the photo, You can legally SELL the photo.

[ll3rd]

Keep in mind there are Federal, State, County, and City statutes that govern various aspects of the issues surrounding your question. A few comments offered good advice. Selling a product may require not only a business license from your local municipality, but a mandatory Certificate Of Authority" to collect sales tax, and if you earn more than $600.00 you must report income to the IRS.

In normal conditions it is legal to take pictures of anyone in a public situation. What you can do with those photos is a whole nother story.

Even though it may not seem like it, if you want to make a profit on the pictures you take (even if you donate the proceeds) what you want to do is start a small business and there are few things as complicated as starting a simple business.

Of course if you wanted to take the pictures and give them out digitally while suggesting the parents make a contribution to the Volleyball Booster Club, that's another story.

Richie[/QUOTE]

I've been paying taxes on my photo gear, my photo sales, et al, for so long I forgot to mention all of that in my rant..

In the US, most municipalities require you to pay a "business tax" and states require you to collect sales tax.. (my photo business is a "Sole Prop" (the simplest way for me)

As far as "Setting up" a business.. Total time for me (including an attorney visit) was one day (actually about five hours including drive time)

Its still a really simple matter in my state, and I could have done it on-line, but the office nearest me is only 12 miles away.

It was a simple matter of describing the business, the expected level of income (a random guess), providing address, Identification ect.

I was given a temporary form with a tax number (useful for buying photo supplies tax free if your state has a "sales Tax") the permanent "Tax Card" comes in the mail.

All States may not be as simple as where I live, but "complications" didn't arise.

Most municipalities are directly linked by computer to the state in which they are located, so the fact that you register as a business with the state SHOULD cover you for that.. Within a month of getting my state tax certificate I got a form to fill out for the town I live in, wanting an estimate of value, (of the equipment) for my business.. I filled it out using honest numbers, and the total tax I need to pay to my town is about $40 a year.

By the way... I always advertise my photo prices as "Tax included" in even dollar amounts, then just send the state their "cut" at tax time. That way, you dont have to do the math at sales time.

Your suggestion that he might "give away" the files electronically, though generous, devalues the photographs totally.. People do not respect, and dont appreciate, the value of such things "Given away".