*Serious/deep question* How do you truly become a professional?

[Not4wood]

Originally Posted by Fireice_2

I work part-time as a photographer and as a computer and camera vendor in my place. When it comes to photography, even though I've just started to build my name, I am happy because, I recently gained clients who used to engage the services of more established photographers in town.

I hardly earn from photography as of now, but I'm happy to know that my work ethics as well as my output and preparation makes them consider me as a true professional even if I work part-time.

So for me, being a professional depends on how you carry and present your services to others. Work ethics also matter. And I agree to what others said that its better to worry how to satisfy a client than worry on how to make your pocket grow.

Very nicely said.

I'd also like to add to what you said in your OP about not telling your clients about being a "Stay At Home Mom". Rae, thats nobodies business but yours. Its just like hiring somebody to work for you as an assistant or apprentice. The first thing you tell them to not tell anybody is its there first time out in the field with you. Its nobodies business but your own.

Making the quality of what you can be proud of and doing the correct Customer Service that brings in Oohs and ahhs from your Clientele is what makes a Professional. Add this to what Brian mentioned above. Its not the amount of money you charge or the profits you bring in. Nobody expects you to make the Scouvulo (OK, I probably missed spelt his name but you get my point) amount of money off of your Photography. It might help, but thats always a pipe dream.

[Lory]

Rae...great discussion. I have not started charging for anything yet...I am just building a portfolio. But I am close to being in the same position as you.

By the way, did you notice we are both here and PCOS Mommies!

Lory

[Fireice_2]

Having confidence in one's work will reassure your clients that they won't regret hiring you. I had a client once that told me he's gonna pay me less if he won't like my work. He's got bad experiences with other photographers before. So I told him no problem. When he saw my work, he even hired me again for a bigger event. It was my first time to perform the task asked from me in the prior engagement but I did not tell them it was my first time.

Tell them it will be your first time to shoot a particular type of photography will give clients goosebumps. On your part as the photographer, you won't deliver simply because you yourself is not mentally prepared to perform. Remember what the mind can conceive the body can achieve.

[jrseyer]

Originally Posted by Fireice_2

Having confidence in one's work will reassure your clients that they won't regret hiring you. Remember what the mind can conceive the body can achieve.

Amen! Now... where was that perpetual motion machine... it's here somewhere.

[Rain Lily]

Originally Posted by Fireice_2

Remember what the mind can conceive the body can achieve.

I KNEW I could fly like Superman! I gotta try that...

[k9ofkaos]

Originally Posted by Rain Lily

I KNEW I could fly like Superman! I gotta try that...

I stick to wall and shoot webs myself........

[Not4wood]

Thats a Hoot, I thought Little Sista over there could fly like Capt Kirk! How did Kalel come into this discussion?

The Media wants to know??

[sonshine_rae]

There's been some good tips added..... and some pretty silly stuff too (lol).

Thanks everyone. I think I'll keep things lowkey for now as I continue to work on my quality.. and enjoy life with my kiddos. My hubby made me feel awesome recently as we talked about my business (I was feeling a bit down with no 'business' coming in). He mentioned that we have already got our money back and then some for my equipment due to my doing our own children's Portraits in the studio !!

So there's no 'pressure' here.. I'll just focus (as I should be anyway) on upping my quality in service and lighting/portraiture/posing etc And enjoy the ride !

[jrseyer]

Keep your head in the clouds, your exposure dialed in, and feet on the ground. You'll be going places sooner than you think. Whenever I feel down I like to read this:

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.

[llpoolej]

Definitions are worthless. One can argue the tipping point of when you become a professional, but, the reality is what are your goals? Are you looking for pats on the back or something that would pay the bills if your husband walked out tomorrow?

I have two kids, but, haven't called myself a sahm(I hate that term really) since they were infants. I have never had to put them in daycare. If your identity is tied up in your kids, I wouldn't try and move on to having a career. It will conflict you too much.

Anyone can grab a camera and be a photographer. Once you start charging people, you have an obligation to deliver what they expect every time you do a shoot. So, definitions are irrelevant. Results are what matter when money starts changing hands.

I don't refer to myself as a "professional photographer" Or a SAHM or really anything. People who hire me do so due to reputation. Which, is I think where the line gets crossed. When you are hired not because you are the cheapest, but, because people are looking for what you offer specifically

[D-Jam]

I think "professional" is all about if you're offering your services for payment and actually receive payment for your services.

I think the real measure is if you're good, bad, or "ok" at your craft.

I could go out tomorrow and try peddling myself as a professional photographer. Maybe someone will pay me money for me to take photos of them, but I might not have as good a quality photo as someone who's been shooting for many years and has a whole studio at their disposal with lighting and all.

Rae, I don't think you should worry so much if you're a SAHM and you want to do it part-time, just know your limits. The only time I ever charged anyone for photography was a dental group that hired me to build their web site. I took the photos of their interiors because they didn't have a lot of money and I had some capability to do this. Now I wouldn't suddenly tell them I can shoot portraits of their doctors and such as good as someone with a studio, but what I did was just adequate for their needs.

Rae, you should just find what customers would want the quality of work you provide at a price you can handle. Granted some more experienced photographers would think you're cutting into their business with a cheaper/lower quality work, but not everyone can afford top quality. I don't know if the big ad agency would pay you for stock photos, but I think the locals who need photography would benefit.

[Ellbee99]

Originally Posted by ohenry

There's no diploma to hang on the wall. No board to certify your competence. It's just you, your reputation, and your presence that makes you successful. It doesn't matter how much money you make to define you as a professional. It doesn't matter if you earn 100% of your livelihood or 10% of it from photography. It's that you earn income from your work, no matter how little or how much. How people perceive you is your best tool. If you say I'm just a stay at home mom that does photography, people will treat you as such. If you remain business like and quote prices, negotiate contracts, and present yourself as a professional, you'll be treated as such.

I could not agree more. Well said.

Also there are plenty of crappy so called pros out there too.

[littlegal]

I think it's fantastic that you care.
And that's it, in a nutshell, how to avoid becoming a bane to the profession.

Just try your hardest. Work your ass off. Use the best equipment you can afford. Know how to use it. Don't let your client have anything less than the very best you can do even if that means working 10 hour days. Don't promise more than you can deliver. Make sure always to have backups, even if that backup is a tagalong shooter. Study your craft until you feel like you can't look at one more photo, or read one more article, and then look and read some more.

If you do these things, your clients will love you, other photogs will admire your gusto, and you'll most likely stay busier than you could ever imagine.

Study Hard, Work Harder, and Good Luck to You!
Hugs,
Cindy

[LeeK]

There are many things that differentiate those that take pix and those that are professional...some of it is creativity, but mostly depends upon what you are shooting I believe...there are many 'pro's' that do weddings and low end editorials and probably do just as well as a seasoned pro would...then there are other area's that require far more technical lighting skill than what a person w/a camera and a few strobes(doesn't matter if they own a pack or cam/flash) simply would not be capable of...doesn't mean they couldn't learn, however could they produce it within the time frame required.




I suggest that these kind's of product photographs are beyond the reach of most photographers... not only equipment but experience/knowledge and that should be an 'understood' level of being professional...or, perhaps I should equate it w/being a specialist?

[llpoolej]

I would equate that with being a specialist vs a generalist. I do not take on a job that is beyond my ability to give top notch results.

[Paul_Dymond]

Hi everybody,

great discussion.

Can I just say that I think being a professional also requires having some knowledge of and respect for how an industry works. It's all very well and good to say that you can shoot a job cheaper than somebody else because you are working part-time but is that a good thing to do? If a full-time pro not running a studio and with minimum overhead cannot compete with your prices and still earn a living is it fair to undercut him/her?
If you can't do a job due to time commitments and your client needs to find another photographer how are they going to go if all have gone out of business? There are some people who think that you should take care of yourself and damn the rest. I tend to think that a rising tide floats all boats. Sure shoot a job cheaper if it will cover your overhead and make a little profit, but if it's a big job why bother having lower prices just to make sure you get the job? Surely it would be to everybody's benefit to maintain a sensible pricing structure so that we can all make some money - whether it be as a full-time or part-time professional.
I say this as a professional travel photographer who's been shooting for more than 10 years. About a year and a half ago my wife went back to work full-time and I'm looking after the kids. So now that I'm no longer the sole provider for a family of four I could just lower all my prices and still make a profit. But I don't because I know what it would do to the industry in my little part of the world. I can still do cheaper jobs of course, but the number of images and usage that I grant is less than I would for the big clients. If you base your pricing on things such as number of images, usage and production costs you'll find that you can still service smaller clients while hopefully getting called to do the big jobs as your reputations builds.

Paul Dymond

Have Camera Will Travel

[LeeK]

I agree w/Paul...I don't get beat down on price w/most corporate or advertising jobs, I charge what I charge and if it's to much they can go on down the street. Equipment is an investment, my big packs, lights cost money every year to have to maintain and I do have quite a few packs and even more lights...then there is the camera's...that get checked and cleaned to insure clean sensors etc...every Janurary all this is done and hopefully keep the pricing below 2k...I simply cannot compete on price. I will not turn on any of my big packs for a 50 pix...you can make more money selling pencils on the street corner in a day. There is a difference between 'retail' type of work and advertising, catalog, commercial work kinda jumps in the middle at times...such a loose term. When some one make's the mistake of saying that joe blow will do it for 1/4 of my price I simply reply by stating that if that's what they are looking for, no creative thought, inferior image quality and questionable pre-press capabilities then he's the guy for them. There always have been and always will be hacks in any profession...if your client is so ignorant as to not know or understand the difference after you've kindly tried to point out what is important to their needs and they still insist on the low price there's nothing you can do 'cept thank them for coming in and that you'll be glad to do their assignment at later time. Arrogant? I think not. I know one time I called a dude and he said he take's his own pix w/a sureshot...nothing you can say to him...let him keep taking his pix and eventually I'll find his competitors and drive a stake in the idiots heart. HA!

[korman]

Originally Posted by Paul_Dymond

If a full-time pro not running a studio and with minimum overhead cannot compete with your prices and still earn a living is it fair to undercut him/her?

There's nothing about fairness here. If you can afford to charge less than your concurrent, more power to you and the customers will love you.

However, in most cases things aren't so simple. Most pros seem to charge what clients are willing to pay in sufficient numbers and the costs they have usually are there for a good reason. So whoever goes into the same line of business will sooner or later end up at the same price level for similar services.

If in some area of photography professionals don't add value to justify the added costs, that area will be lost for professionals, no matter if you're fair or not.

Korman

[Paul_Dymond]

There's nothing about fairness here. If you can afford to charge less than your concurrent, more power to you and the customers will love you.

Korman[/quote]

Hi there Korman,

While I agree with you that it's certainly fair to charge less if you have a lesser overhead, there's still nothing to be gained in undercutting the market and not making a profit. That just doesn't make business sense? Would you rather be given a job based on your visual and technical ability or the fact that you were half the price of the other photographer (and making a loss on a job)?

And what happens when the other photographer goes out of business even though he/she has upheld solid pricing principles based on business overhead. Would that make you feel good? I know I certainly wouldn't want to be responsible for the failing of a peer's business based on unprofitable business practices.

I guess my sense of karma works a little differently. I get so sick of this attitude in the photography world of I'm gonna charge what I want and damn the rest of you. Yes I know all's fair in love and war but the lower the price of photography goes the less respect it gets from the general public and the more trouble we're going to have bringing it back up again. No other business in the world would have as its model, charge less than it costs you to live just so you can say you're a photographer.

There is no shortage of moaning if big companies come in and start undercutting the prices of all the little Mum and Pop stores to send them broke. Hell if they start selling products at below cost just so they gain market share there's no end of complaining. But when photographers do it nobody seems to complain, some people even encourage it. Give me a break. People need to show a little respect for the people that come before you and worked so hard to bring the industry as far forward as they have.

I would prefer to work in partnership with other photographers and have us all be successful based on our own abilities. In my little part of the world we pass jobs on to each other, get together for pizza and beer nights and really co-operate with each other. That's the kind of photographic environment I like to be a part of - not one where everybody's so concerned with their own 'success' that they don't care about anybody else's.

[llpoolej]

The only photographers who will care about being fair price wise, are those who actually are professionals and who are members of professional groups, especially local ones. Your MWAC isn't going to care. They are taking outdoor photos of kids at parks, and handing over a CD.

You can't get your panties in a knot over the wave of cheaper photographers. Be so good that you can't be ignored and then charge for it!

I have a retail storefront, and really my biggest expenses are that, insurance, professional dues and material costs. I do have a CD option but it is a whole heck of a lot higher than what most charge.

My sister wanted me to come to her city and do a day of photographing her friends kids. There is a friend of theirs that does a CD for $100. Her work is not bad, it isn't great, but, it good enough my sister likes it. She is a typical Mom client and really would only see the difference if you put her in a very talented studio. Of course for studio stuff she comes up here and of course, I don't charge my sister.

The answer to your deep serious question is you become a professional by acting like a professional. By abiding by a code of ethics like PPA's. By taking on jobs only if you know you can deliver a quality product. It is like any other job. You don't get there overnight. It is a process.