How does a portrait photographer make a living?

[waple]

I've had several commercial shoots for products, and I typically make about $900/day or $500/half day. Unfortunately, i don't work every day

However, I have had several people ask me to photograph their families. I've looked at pricing and talked to some people to see how much they'd be willing to spend. It seems that, at least from who I've talked to, families don't want to spend nearly as much as a company.

There are a lot of studios out there that have coupons for free sitting fees and/or a free 8x10. I've taken advantage of some and come out paying no more than $20 some times.

So how do you actually make enough money to support a studio, let alone, a family? Do most people just use the family shoots as lunch money and just hope for the big spenders to hopfully come in or what?

[Unkl Buck]

By figuring out what you expenses are and charging for a profit. Here's how I do it. I figured up my overhead (rent, utilities, phone, insurance, etc.), totaled my COGS, then added a markup and that was my price for everything I offered. You HAVE GOT to add that in or you are not really making any money.

Oh, and I don't market to the free sitting or free 8x10 crowd. They know coming to me that they will be spending a lot more than a chain studio. Besides, I give more time and offer more services than a chain studio does.

Not to mention, the last time I talked with my accountant, he reminded me that I'm NOT a non-profit organization.

[Unkl Buck]

I was just talking with my wife tonight about trading services. And she hates it. I do to, to some extent. If it's a win win situation, then maybe. Also depends on how cash flow has been as well. However, if I do trades, it's dollar for dollar, not special pricing.

[heartseye]

Waple.....I have done this work all my life and done rather well with it.....
Basically I decided on 3 major no-compromise things:

1. Be able to produce insightful and original images for my clients. They are distinctive and most local people know my style at a glance.

2. Charge carriage trade prices, because that is what I sell.

3. No client will ever receive the same sitting/setup/location as any other client. Ever. Unless that's what they want.

It has worked for many years.....

[waple]

Thanks much for the great info!

Originally Posted by Unkl Buck

then added a markup

How did you determine what you wanted your markup to be? Did you do like a 10% profit margin, or determine you wanted $50/hour or a set yearly salary?

Originally Posted by Unkl Buck

Oh, and I don't market to the free sitting or free 8x10 crowd. They know coming to me that they will be spending a lot more than a chain studio. Besides, I give more time and offer more services than a chain studio does.

So I guess there are two types of clients out there: those that just want the cheapest possible, and those who are willing to pay a lot more for quality time and results. And the chain studios out there probably cater, for the most part, to the quick and cheap crowd.[/quote]

Originally Posted by heartseye

2. Charge carriage trade prices, because that is what I sell.

Does that mean "Wealthy patrons or customers"? Do you ever have to explain to people why your prices are higher than the chain studios or other photographers? If so, how do you do it and are you ever able to sway over the people who don't initially want to pay much?

Originally Posted by heartseye

3. No client will ever receive the same sitting/setup/location as any other client. Ever.

How do you accomplish that? Do you have a studio and just burn the backgrounds after you use them once? Or do you always go to their house?

I appreciate the help.

[Songman45]

I heard this comparision and it seems to apply to photographers as well:
There is not difference in a $10 whore a $200 prostitute or a $1000 call girl. The diference is in the John (patron, if you aren't accustomed to the slang). The business person sets the worth of the product and srevice offered and thus sets the level of clietnele. You can't argue the profits of the chains, considering the high overhead nor can you argue the profits of the elitest. Success is measured on how well one captures his market, not that of another business' model.

Remember, the offering of a certificate entitling the holder to a number of visits and the inclusion of one complimentary enlargment from each sitting is not a total give-away. It is an advertising method and a volume generator. Selling a multiple sitting certificate is a chore by itself. Putting a price tag on it builds in a percieved value and generates some interest in portraiture where it may have lacked before. The camera room technique is different for these. The photographer has not been commissioned in advance for a specific wall portrait or a number of album prints. The customer comes in knowing he is recieving his complimentary print and the photographer now has an opportunity to broaden the customer's interest by creating images that work into things like wall arrangments or multiple frames. It takes sales ability from the very first contact through the completion of the entire process. You can guide a customer into pruchases simply by selling the desire or you can wait until a customer desires what you have to offer.

One man's gimmick is another man's treasure of success. Glass half full? Perception is key. You may say that you'd never come off your sitting fee or comp. a print at the risk of being taken advantage of. Exactly, you will never have a customer walk with only his "Free 8X10" if you never offer him the opportunity. Conversely, you will never get the opporutnity to create a customer, educate a consumer and create a desire where one did not originally exist.

Pricing and profit are the two largest hurdles. How much you can charge is a balance of the value you place on your work and the value percieved by the customer. If you must recover the expense of a shoot in the sitting fee, then that cost must be aligned with how much the customer "thinks" it ought to cost. The cost of enlargements must never be percieved by the customer as the expence of processing and printing, what the paper and ink costs. They must be sold on the experience and the charisma factor of the image.

Whether you shoot 10 jobs at $10K, 100 jobs at $1K, 1000 jobs at $100 is up to you and your market.

[heartseye]

Does that mean "Wealthy patrons or customers"? Do you ever have to explain to people why your prices are higher than the chain studios or other photographers? If so, how do you do it and are you ever able to sway over the people who don't initially want to pay much?



How do you accomplish that? Do you have a studio and just burn the backgrounds after you use them once? Or do you always go to their house?

I appreciate the help.[/quote]

"wealthy" is relative. I am creating for my client a work which will carry the message many years into the future. A work created just for that client.....
So, I never, or rarely, have to justify the price. Most who call me do so knowing what I do and how it all works, so price is not generally uppermost in their minds....

The images I create are based on what I can gather from the interview......I shoot almost everything on location, and I constantly develop a bank of potential locations for future use. Many times the location is NOT an outdoor one. Anything which fits the need is a possible location.....a hot tub, an aircraft interior, a privately owned facility like a gym or ballet studio....a spa.....just be imaginative and ask if you see a place you'd like to use. You will be surprised how often the owner will be happy to help you. Cheers, Bob

[waple]

Originally Posted by heartseye

"wealthy" is relative.

Well, I wasn't familiar with the term "carriage trade prices" so when I looked it up, that's the definition I found.

Great words of wisdom there, Songman. Makes a lot of sense. I suppose it does make sense to get people in the door with a lower incentinve and try to get them to come back or order more.

The only two times I've taken my son to a shopping center studio was when they offered a free sitting and 8x10 so I didn't have to pay anything else, and they didn't really try to upsell me (for some reason). So my perspective is from a cheapscate who really only looks for the bargains.

[00silvergt]

Wow, you must really be good! My friend's girlfriend does product photography for a living working for a major retailer, and she doesn't make 20% a day as you.

Portraits, I would scout around and see what the other guys charge, look at their work, if it is comparable to what you would do, if so or if not price accordingly.

[heartseye]

Waple....... "So my perspective is from a cheapscate who really only looks for the bargains."

Well that just about sums up your difficulty, doesn't it.....

oosilvergt......."Portraits, I would scout around and see what the other guys charge, look at their work, if it is comparable to what you would do, if so or if not price accordingly."

So.....you are happy to let other people fix your prices? Really poor thinking there.....

[Songman45]

In the portrait business everything is based on the next visit. Longivity is the name of the game. If you understand the life stages and how they repeat in generations, you just jump on the merry-go-round and take it for a ride around. You get your original sitting at any point in life and continue the cycle. At my age, I won't begin with babies for this example. Lets go to high school and seniors. Can you go on location and shoot school dances for a modest profit, perhaps step up a notch and get the prom the following year. You are getting known to the underclass and if you get the prom, you'll be in front of the grads for this and next year. Some of these kids have gotten to know you and you can attract the senior portraits, then the weddings, then come the babies and children good for the next 5 years (before the annual school photographer) in this period you get a shot at developing children's hobbies and intrests (dance, sports, etc.) Family portrait time when the last of the brood gets to an age where the looks don't change so often and its wall portrait time. The children grow up and if you endure in the business long enough you'll see them at the dance, prom and graduation time.

The success of the business is not solely the success of the current sitting or assignment but how you get that same customer back. How you develop that customer and introduce him to the next need will impact your future. Why constantly rely upon new clients when you can have repeat business for generations?

How do you get that customer in front of the lens for the first few visits? Offer the proud new mommie an opportunity to record three of the first year's development stages and recieve an 8X10 from each sitting for a price that represents the price of a single sitting fee. Children already at school age? Those three visits change to group photos like a generation sitting, a couples session with just mom and dad, and a full family session. Each group session will (this is the hook, known only to you) also have poses of smaller break downs of the group. The clothing, scenery and mood all match and afford that up sale for a composite of enlargements.

Not only does each session lead to the next session but each session has to ultimately lead to the proofing and related additional enlargement sales. There is no need to pressure or force hard sales. In proofing you just never limit the customer's thinking to that one premium print. You guide them and suggest ways to use and display the photographs.

Its not about giving away an 8X10 and being taken advantage of. Its about having a captive audience looking at lasting recordings of fleeting moments, precious irresistable images. Its about multiple chances to advertise directly and immediately to your purchaser.

[waple]

You're pretty awesome, songman. You've sold me.

[HuBBaTheMan]

Originally Posted by 00silvergt

Wow, you must really be good! My friend's girlfriend does product photography for a living working for a major retailer, and she doesn't make 20% a day as you.

Portraits, I would scout around and see what the other guys charge, look at their work, if it is comparable to what you would do, if so or if not price accordingly.

Working as an inhouse product photographer who might shoot huge volumes of images for retail shops (catalog/online/etc), is completely different from working as a commercial product photographer who may be producing 1-2 images of a product for an advertisement campaign and the pay will also differ.

Same with shooting clothes (which ofcourse is also a product images (usually on a dummy/hanger etc) compared to a full fashion advertisement image with a model, makeup, stylist, creative director/AD, assistants, photographer, etc etc etc.

Different jobs basically catering to different needs with the client.

[00silvergt]

Originally Posted by HuBBaTheMan

Working as an inhouse product photographer who might shoot huge volumes of images for retail shops (catalog/online/etc), is completely different from working as a commercial product photographer who may be producing 1-2 images of a product for an advertisement campaign and the pay will also differ.

Same with shooting clothes (which ofcourse is also a product images (usually on a dummy/hanger etc) compared to a full fashion advertisement image with a model, makeup, stylist, creative director/AD, assistants, photographer, etc etc etc.

Different jobs basically catering to different needs with the client.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

[Songman45]

Sorry, I thought we were discssing how portrait photographers made a living.