wedding shooters poll

[flashmedic]

how many wedding shooters give away digital images (or include them in packages)? or do you sell them?
the bonus question is how much you charge - per file? for all files?

I'm thinking of starting this practice, but it feels like I would be selling my soul...trying to see what others in the industry are doing

[joshranwest]

I dont give them away any more. I used to, and actually wondered why I wasnt getting any print orders (dont laugh it happens lol). I charge for the DVD, on a per image basis. Usually comes out to be about 600-1000 bucks per DVD. They will pay it all day long.

[flashmedic]

can I ask how much per image? how does that number compare to any of your prints? an 8x10? 4x6?

[joshranwest]

Well I price the DVD based on "lost print sales" because from my experience, and many helpful tips on here, "when an original leaves the studio, do not expect the customer to order prints from you." I have found that to be true, so I price the DVD based on lost print sales. Right now we do about $800-$1,500 in print sales from any given wedding on average. I price by the image on the DVD, to be about $1.00-$1.25. So if I sold a DVD with 800 images, it would be a little over $800 - almost our average print sales. If I sell a DVD with 1,000-1,500 images, we have just made up our average lost print sales with the DVD and then some.

[nikonjedi]

Good Morning Josh,

That's quite a lot of images. If you shoot enough images to bill someone $800-1500, do you go thru the trouble of editing them all and doing Post Production on each image? I mean, that sounds like a lot of work. I am a novice, hoping to get into the wedding shooting game myself, and am really watching and learning from the pros here on PhotoCamel to see where I would like to place myself in the market and what makes the most sense.

Thank you,
NJ

[joshranwest]

800-1000 is a healthy average. I have done weddings with as little as 200 pictures, and as much as 1800 (12 hour job), so it depends. And yes I run them through a batch editing program just to correct some minor stuff - I try to get everything right in camera, but sometimes there is a tiny flaw. Processing takes about 3-4 hours. Nothing too hard to handle, but I have been doing it forever, so I have it down to a science. Some people that are new, it might take them a little longer to get their system down. My advice though, is to strive the best you can to get the exposure right in-camera. Thats the whole digital "costs less" myth. No film, but each hour you spend shooting digital, expect to spend an average of 1 hour in front of the computer - it costs, just in your time. When I do a film wedding, its almost easier! LOL!! Shoot, develop, done.

[flashmedic]

Josh, how many images would you say you "burn" from an average wedding? I've been doing some concertish stuff lately (helping out my church) and I've been pitching about 3/4 of my images (blurry, oof, etc)...but then again, I'm taking way more than I know they need/want. I wouldn't be prepared to burn 1/2-3/4 of a wedding shoot but I'm curious how much you burn. (If I had to wager, it would be pretty low - you're a film guy at heart who's loving the convenience of digital)

[joshranwest]

You are right, flash, I am a film guy at heart that loves the convienence of digital! How did ya know? LOL.

To answer your question. If I shoot 1000 images at a wedding, I figure 900 are usable. The other 100 might have blinks, flash didnt fire, etc. So that leaves me with the 900. I will process those to my specs, which doesnt take long on a batch program. You are correct in thinking to take more than you will ever need, I do that all the time, even with portrait sessions.

Out of those 900 I will burn them all (since they are paying for them all). Those other 100 that were blurry, etc, I delete them. After the original image DVD is paid for, you will probably never hear from the customer again. But always, always put a disclaimer on the cd - "if the lab you develop these from screws up, our photography studio is not responsible" something worded better, but you get my drift. Its all about covering your a** or the "cya" term. Last thing you want to hear from a bride is "I devloped these at wal mart and the pics suck!!" Worse, their friends see it and blame you for crap pics. Not fun.

Another note, Wal Mart, or any other budget lab might not develop their prints without contacting you first. I have gotten tons of calls from Wal Mart "did you take these, is it okay for us to print them" because of the copyright laws.

[nikonjedi]

So, Josh, and this can be to anyone willing to answer, do you think that the trend is moving toward including a disc of the images with the entire wedding package, or perhaps not? I'd like to be ahead of the curve, but if not ahead, at least on it. It seems to me that alot of wedding work is thru referrals and once you give the disc away, you are no longer in control of your work, and cheapies will scan, chop, butcher, etc the images that you have taken the time to carefully craft. If this is the case, and someone sees the "frankenstein'd" images, it's possible that they will take that as YOUR work and be somewhat less-than-impressed. HENCE, I am almost more than inclined to offer wedding packages that will NOT include a disc of the images for the client, including an album, and some nice 8x10, 11x14 framed/matted images, HENCE, MY work by MY hand is out there with the client and IF they should feel the need to have the images, simply bill them for the disc and supply them with a release to print to their heart's content, at a rate of $1-1.50 per image. Does this sound more sensible? not just to get clients to come in the door, but to keep them coming and refer me as well?

NJ

[joshranwest]

Brides now want "their" images on cd, yes. Thats the trend. But again, you give them a CD, goodbye to reprint orders (at least from my experience), as well as the whole copyright issue. I used to give CDs of originals FREE. Yeah, those were fun times. LOL.

Here are my packages, as an example of what to include... (remember I live in a rural part of Georgia, so my prices are a little low)

Sensational ~ 4-6 Hours Of Time
-One bridal or engagement session
-Approximately 200-700 proofs
-One photographer
-Preparation, formals, ceremony, up to two hours at reception
-Password protected online gallery for viewing proofs and ordering prints for life

Coverage only (all of the above) - $1,000
Coverage + 1- $200 credit toward prints/prepaid prints - $1,200
Coverage + 1- 8x10" coffee table book - $1,500
Coverage + 1- 30 page library bound 8x10 album, 2- 20 page parent 5x7" albums - $2,500
Coverage + 1- complete set of 4x6 prints - $3,000
Coverage + 1- DVD of all original files - $3,200
===========================
Phenomenal ~ 8 Hours Of Time
-One bridal or engagement session
-Approximately 400-800 proofs
-Two photographers
-Rehearsal, preparation, formals, ceremony, up to two hours at reception
-Password protected online gallery for viewing proofs and ordering prints for life
-One 11x14 print - unframed

Coverage only (all of the above) - $2,000
Coverage + 1- $200 credit toward prints/prepaid prints - $2,200
Coverage + 1- 8x10 coffee table book - $2,500
Coverage + 1- 30 page library bound 8x10 album, 2- 20 page parent 5x7" albums - $3,500
Coverage + 1- complete set of 4x6 prints - $4,000
Coverage + 1- DVD of all original files - $4,200
===========================
Breathtaking ~ Unlimited Time
-One bridal or engagement session
-Approximately 800-1000+ proofs
-Two photographers
-Rehearsal, preparation, formals, ceremony, up to two hours at reception
-Password protected online gallery for viewing proofs and ordering prints for life
-Two 11x14 prints - unframed

Coverage only (all of the above) - $2,500
Coverage + 1- $200 credit toward prints//prepaid prints - $2,700
Coverage + 1- 8x10 coffee table book - $3,000
Coverage + 1- 30 page library bound 8x10 album, 2- 20 page parent 5x7" albums - $4,000
Coverage + 1- complete set of 4x6 prints - $4,500
Coverage + 1- DVD of all original files - $4,800

[flashmedic]

i like that system...you shoot, then they get to pick their medium for display.

[nikonjedi]

Josh,

It stands to reason that if you get referral business that some of your clients will inevitably take you to Atlanta to shoot. Do you bill seperately for that or just tack on some "travel stipend" on the end of this? About how many weddings to you shoot per year? How long have you been at it? is this a second job or your main source?

When noting the "coverage +1" am I reading correctly or is it say, Sensational + 1 complete set of 4x6 prints is $3K? So, let's say someone wanted "all-the-trimmings"...you know, like a robust Thanksgiving dinner, with no holds barred.

Breathtaking PLUS everything else. What would be the damage then? I am not sure If you've already answered this, but do you post these prices on your site or just have them call for pricing and consultation?

SOrry for so many questions. Thank you.

NJ

[joshranwest]

Yeah if we get an atlanta shoot, there is a travel fee tacked on.

We are currently doing about 30 weddings a year.

This is my second job, I have a day job in a totally different field with weekends off, so it fits in well.

I have been at this since 1/1996.

Yeah the sensational with a complete set of 4x6 is 3K. 4x6 is the same as a DVD pretty much, they can still scan them and print their own 8x10's etc, so I priced it less than with a DVD. I might change that though.

I have been back and forth about posting the prices on the site. I have a few posts here about it. I currently DO post them. It pre qualifies the client, and all the bad news is out of the way, so when you get an inquiry, they are already interested in you and your price.

Breathtaking plus everything else would be a custom quote. :0)

No problem with the questions. I like to help and share my experience and knowledge.

[nikonjedi]

Josh,

Thank you for the information. I saw where you said that you do some batch processing. I will assume that this saves you some time. When doing your books, so to speak, do you actually log the hours spend shooting, processing and sitting with the client all at different rates? After viewing some other photogs, I notice that they may consider themselves worth x amount as a shooter, y amount as a consultant and z amount for processing and editing. Do you keep books in this manner? If not, how then, can you actually figure out what you've made gross and net for a year's work? Also, let's say that I were working with your numbers, copyrighted of course, LOL, but at thirty to forty weddings per year, with a similar work process as you, could I make an extra 25-30K per year? What, if anything, has kept you from throwing caution to the wind and going in, full metal jacket and all, into photography full time?

NJ

[flashmedic]

karma to josh for all the good advice.

i wish we could drag some of the other guru's (Mark McCall & Benji come to mind) into the conversation for their expertise/input

[joshranwest]

I was thinking the same thing (I learned a lot from Mark McCall and Benji on here by the way). Thanks for the karma and compliment. I am always willing to share tips and advice.

TO answer your question, I have been in and out of full time photography for a while now. I have taken a few years off the day job to focus on photography, and some years I did both. I guess I like saving money, because most of what I do with the photo studio goes right back to the studio and in a high interest savings account for the future - you just never know! I use the day job to pay the bills, and raise my daughter. My wife also makes money, most of it, LOL! Nurses are making some money these days!

[flashmedic]

i worked for a guy for a while (my first "pro" photo job) his wife made the money for the family, he made money to support his golf habit

[nikonjedi]

I am kind of excited. I am going out with a professional this Saturday to assist while he shoots a wedding. Not a large one, but It'll get my feet wet. Hopefully, they'll allow me to tag along a few more times. They believe that the experience that you get "riding shotgun" with a pro is far greater than instruction or reading a manual.

In any event, I have a partner. The goal is to start this off as a "weekend" or secondary endeavor while gaining experience and seeking to market, build clientele and perfect our craft and find our niche until one day, potentially making this the primary source of income.

NJ