Theft Thread?

[billkay]

What happened to it? The link in the email I got got regarding it is a bad link.

[Mr. Pickles]

I will check and let you know.

[Latinbob]

I think the OP requested that it be removed.

[Mr. Pickles]

In addition to what Latinbob said, the OP is now taking legal action in the discussed case, so in that light, it was removed to help protect this side....

Don't know who sent the link, so can't comment on that portion. But nice to be a popular board.

[brian.austin]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pickles

Don't know who sent the link, so can't comment on that portion. But nice to be a popular board.

Unless it's a subscribed thread...

[billkay]

The OP? Forgive my ignorance, what's that?

[Latinbob]

Original Poster. The person that started the thread.

[Mark McCall]

Athena got to it before I did.

[joshranwest]

Yeah we requested it be deleted since it went into litigation. Thanks for keeping up with it though, and I have to tell everyone...

THANK YOU for your support and advice!!!

[Mark McCall]

Josh,
A small piece of advice.

Photographers have been worried about image theft ever since silver was discovered.
It's going to happen.

If we, as photographers, are worried about image theft, we aren't charging enough for our services in the first place.

It's very easy to spend alot of time and energy policing the use of your images after the fact. There aren't enough hours in the day to be everywhere, all the time.

The best thing we can do, in my opinion, is to accept that it's going to happen, take measures to prevent it, but most importantly, charge enough for our work to include the theft loss.

[joshranwest]

You are spot on Mark. I am sure this happened to me more than once, but like you said, we cant be in every place at every time. I guess the biggest thing is the whole watermark removal, but hey, I hear its easy!

I have subsequently raised my prices to cover this (today actually). Its unfortunate, but it has to be done. I received 2 bookings already, and 1 portrait booking. So people are not flinching at the new prices. Its also prime wedding season soon, heading into our busy season.

I have since updated the watermarks. I think they are better, but we will have to see.

I need to come to one your seminars!! If you are ever in Atlanta, let me know!

[billkay]

Mark, I so disagree. By not doing anything about it when you can, gives the impression that it's OK for everyone to do it. I always lock my house and car even though I know that it can be accessed through any window that a thief cares to break. I just can't see bending over and grabbing my ankles. Just my opinion though.

[Mark McCall]

Bill,
I never said "let them steal".
I specifically said....'take measures to prevent it and price your work to include theft loss".
Grocery stores, malls, clothing stores all use this methodology because it's sound business practice.

These businesses already know what we should know. Their security detail will not catch everybody, so the price of the product includes theft loss.

It's ok to prevent theft...we'd be crazy not to.
But theft prevention costs time and money. Which drives down profitability.
The trick is to draw the line on how much time and effort is devoted to theft loss.

[billkay]

I read your advice, "The best thing we can do, in my opinion, is to accept that it's going to happen, take measures to prevent it, but most importantly, charge enough for our work to include the theft loss." From that statement I believed that you would have no intention of following up with an effort to recover the theft of your images if you knew about it. I try to take measures to insure that my images are not stolen but I also think that infringement of my copyright is an actionable situation when other, reasonable, means to correct it fail. I think the public in general views "intellectual property" as having less value than a CD or candy bar stolen in a store.

[brian.austin]

Originally Posted by billkay

I try to take measures to insure that my images are not stolen but I also think that infringement of my copyright is an actionable situation when other, reasonable, means to correct it fail. I think the public in general views "intellectual property" as having less value than a CD or candy bar stolen in a store.

Mark's point, though, is centered around the cost of policing such an enforcement. Building in the lost potential of sales due to theft (ie demand is gone) to the price of a product covers those losses without incurring the costs of policing. Can you imagine how much time and money it would take for Walmart to set up TRUE theft prevention? Every person who walks in the door is a potential thief to a security system!

In most situations, the cost of looking for a violation will be considerably higher than the actual recovered income from a violation itself.

[Mark McCall]

Originally Posted by billkay

From that statement I believed that you would have no intention of following up with an effort to recover the theft of your images if you knew about it.

PPA handles any theft issues if they arise.But I've never asked them to pursue a case.

But be careful about litigating with a client. The cure could be far worse than the cancer.
Bad press can affect your business, even if it's you litigating theft of your images.
Nobody wins a lawsuit.

[joshranwest]

ITS OVER! Finally. But that was the easiest case I have ever seen!

UPDATE:

-myspace deleted her account
-myspace also deleted her sisters account which had the same images
-we went to court, we won in an open-shut case
-I was awarded financial damages, and they now have a record, both of them
-her online gallery was completely deleted, per the judge
-I also filed a public report for anyone wondering what happened/future brides she might talk to and try to make me a bad guy, per the judge

Thanks everyone for following this, and for the great tips.

Lesson - enforce the contract!
Bigger Lesson - no more free online galleries until they buy a print at the viewing
Huge Lesson - always watermark!