Advice on Pricing??

[Worm324]

I just did my first Car show and several people want me to photo there cars for promotional use such as marketing and stuff.

They love my work and want me to do it, but I have no clue what to charge them or even offer them as a package ?? A cd of there photos? Posters? Prints?

The biggest thing is Money. I have no experience charging people money for photography, hence no clue what to charge. I put together a package for $250.00 dollars in the gallery of the car show, but I don't think that is what these people are asking for.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Here are the Car Show pics if you wish to see. I took all the shots on the first 15 pages or so, My buddy took the rest.

JasonHermann : photos : Valley Central High School Car Show 11-07-2007 - powered by SmugMug

Thanks for any advice/ info you can share

Best,
Jay

[KerryG]

How much is your time worth and how long will it take? Let's say you want to charge $75/hour for your time. How long will you spend taking the pictures and how long will you spend in post? Then, how much will the prints cost?

So let's say you spend 30 minutes per vehicle taking photos. Then you are going to spend 90 minutes in post production. Thats two hours, thats $150 plus printing. That's a pure labor play and can work well. As you grow, then you will want to add different prices for different types of licenses such as print, web, or for the exclusive right to use, etc.

[jfrancho]

It will work just like you were starting out a portrait business. Do a couple of some extraordinary cars for the cost of prints, under the agreement that you can use those for your own ad purposes (get a property release!). Nothing too big for the car owners - an 8x10 or similar with a digital mat, printed on 11x14 and mounted on foam core will be nice. Then you can get BIG prints to have as a portfolio, and show them off to potential customers at meets, shows, and cruise nights. Keep in mind, the personalities of the owners may be "salt of the earth" but the wallets are definitely not. Once you have some good work to show off, make sure you get a decent amount of money.

[Worm324]

Thanks for the feedback guys I want to sound as professional as possible, because this guy can potential hook me up with circles of people that want there cars done!

I'm thinking that 1 hour per photo PP is about right depending on how crazy he wants his shots to be. $50 and hour isn't bad and $100 for the shoot itself.

Then I figure I'll give him eight 8x10's for his portfolio. Total package $500.00

Now if he wants me to put together a book for him that will be extra.

The CD of the negatives is were I am stuck. If he gets that he will not need me anymore and can do what ever he wants with his photos. I don't have an issue with that as long as I can still use them for myself. Any thoughts on what to charge for say 10 totally processed full res pics on disk??

$100? $200?

Thanks again for you help on this. I'm trying to get it down on paper so I can present a little package breakdown for the guy.

Here is a shot I emailed him for a teaser He was very excited when he saw it!


Best,
Jay

[dsp]

I wouldn't give up the high res files on CD. Sell them prints. If you really want to sell the files, I would ask at least $50 each for them, probably more like $100. Like you said, once he has them you get no more sales and he does whatever he wants with them. You also run the risk of the photos getting printed in a way not under your control, if the prints look like garbage for some reason (bad printer, wrong/no profiles, etc) and he tells everyone the pictures where taken by you, you look bad and that can hurt future work. Just my opinion....

[waple]

Nice pic!

I was wonering about sending a client digital negatives as well. From the limited stuff that I know, you (well, "we" actually) have a few things to consider:

How much would you charge for prints? If you charge $50 for an 8x10 you'd have the potential loss of thousands of dollars IF he actually intends to print tons of photos. So I think you sort of need to just guestimate how many prints you'd be able to get out of him. If you don't think it'd be more than 5, then maybe $200 since it'd give him a little discount and it'd give you the cash up front. But if you think he may print 100, then you may want to charge accordingly.

How will he want to use the photos? I'd think he'd want to use them in future marketing things like brochures and a web site. I can't see him spending $50 a pop to hand out for marketing purposes. So perhaps you sell him a limited usage rights deal where he pays $200 and can use it on his own brochures.

However, if he is going to make money from this photo that you took, you should probably get compensated as well. This is something I'm really not sure about. Should he pay you a royalty from every sale made via the brochure? Do you come to an agreement about how much he can make with this new photo and he gives you 2% of that in order to use it? I really don't know.

Just things to think about. I'd really like to hear what others say as well. I've been in the bad habit of shooting the session/pp for a fee, then giving them the negatives. But I know that's bad. I do that with web sites as well, but for some reason, that seems like it should work that way. If I design a logo for a company, it should be their logo, not mine to only allow them to use it for a short while.

[Worm324]

Dave, Thanks for the comments and feedback!! Thats a good point about the pics possible getting printed and looking like crap. He does seem like a strait up guy, so if I explain that to him hopefully he will still come to me for prints?

Waple, You raised several points that I have been mulling over in my head. If he decides to sell these photos to make money then who is the dummy?? Me I would think? But then again, if he wants to get his car in a magazine, he will need the negatives if the magazine will publish? He did specifically say he wants to use them for promotional use as well as a portfolio.

I was thinking $100 dollars a pic would be appropriate, but that is $800 dollars on top of the $500 I am already planning on charging him? I think he may think that is to much and try and find somebody else. I can't afford to loose this potential business revenue stream though as I am just starting out and trying to make a name for myself.

The more I think of it, the more I think I might potential screw myself out of a lot of money. On the other side, if it gets my name out there and lots more business, then that loss of money will be a wash in the long run.

Thanks again for all the thoughts everybody. Please chime in if you have any more thoughts on the subject as I'm sure many can benefit from the knowledge/ experience of you all

Best,
Jay

[jfrancho]

Originally Posted by Worm324

Thanks for the feedback guys I want to sound as professional as possible, because this guy can potential hook me up with circles of people that want there cars done!

I'm thinking that 1 hour per photo PP is about right depending on how crazy he wants his shots to be. $50 and hour isn't bad and $100 for the shoot itself.

Then I figure I'll give him eight 8x10's for his portfolio. Total package $500.00

Now if he wants me to put together a book for him that will be extra.

The CD of the negatives is were I am stuck. If he gets that he will not need me anymore and can do what ever he wants with his photos. I don't have an issue with that as long as I can still use them for myself. Any thoughts on what to charge for say 10 totally processed full res pics on disk??

$100? $200?

Thanks again for you help on this. I'm trying to get it down on paper so I can present a little package breakdown for the guy.

Here is a shot I emailed him for a teaser He was very excited when he saw it!


Best,
Jay

Smooth out the reflections in the body panels, and you should have no problem selling this in the $200 range. As far as supplying the file, I say go ahead, give the owner all he wants on CD for $50, provided none of the images are greater than 600 px. on the longest side.

[Worm324]

Yeah man, this is a throw away shot. I took this in the parking lot at the show and quickly jazzed it up for him. Were going to go to a specific location for the real photo shoot were the reflections shouldn't be near as much of an issue

Here is 1 closer to the original with just minor cloning and selective blurr/ vignette.



600px. lol I guess I'm in a way trying to figure out how to tell him No if he wants the negatives. I just don't know how to tell him if he asks and explain it in a way so I don't come across like a jerk?

Say for example he wants the full res file for a huge banner he wants to get made up at some sign company? How would you suggest I handle that question?? Especially when I already charged him $500 dollars?

I guess If I had a steady stream of client's I wouldn't care if I had to say no, but the fact that I have pretty much none makes me very nervous on how to play this card

Thanks again,

Best
Jay

[jfrancho]

I wouldn't say its a throw away - its well exposed, sharp and with a little editing, could look like it was shot under a tent.

If he wants the file for a large banner, ask him who will be printing it, and supply them with the file, or draft a contract that details his usage rights. Either way, bu sure to include it ion the next batch of images you register with the US Copyright Office .

Now, all that said, since this is your first customer for this, I'd say, do what you can for him without taking a hit in the wallet, and use it as an opportunity for more business. Just be sure he understands the favor (an itemized invoice with a high figure in the total, and "NO CHARGE" written at the bottom will drive the pint home), and returns it by handing out cards or whatever.

[Worm324]

Thanks John I don't want to deviate from the topic, but any suggestions on how to smooth out the reflections easily? I did try when I was editing the photo, but it looked blotchy and fake no matter what I tried, so I aborted as it didn't matter much at the time.

I appreciate the the thoughts and I think that is a very good way of handling the situation while maintaining professional. I never considered providing the file to clients for him

Thanks,
Jay

[dsp]

Pricing issues are always a nightmare. Do you charge what your time, skill and product are worth and risk losing the sale, or give the client a great price and set future expectations? If you give him a great deal, will any referrals from him expect the same pricing? Tough questions. One of the better resources for pricing is fotoQuote. It covers most types of usage. It might be worth checking out, it's about $140, but you should get that back quickly.
fotoQuote Pro, the Industry Standard for Pricing Photography
The hardest part is letting yourself charge what you're worth.

[jfrancho]

The hardest part is letting yourself charge what you're worth.

No, the hardest part is the inevitable, initial rejections.