What do you charge for photos?

[Nikonfreak]

Originally Posted by heartseye

Or is it you, who tells the market? Which would you rather be? The choice does exist.....

A company dictating to the market has played out many times before...I can think of Apple Vs the PC clone, beta vs VHS, and the list can go on and on.

The market will determine what cost(s) it is willing to bear. It's your job to figure out what that maximum cost really is and let the market determine if you're quality is perceived high enough to earn that maximum price point.

Julio

[heartseye]

Originally Posted by Nikonfreak

A company dictating to the market has played out many times before...I can think of Apple Vs the PC clone, beta vs VHS, and the list can go on and on.

The market will determine what cost(s) it is willing to bear. It's your job to figure out what that maximum cost really is and let the market determine if you're quality is perceived high enough to earn that maximum price point.

Julio

Ah Julio......if that were true then nobody would drive a Porsche....or a Rolls or a Ferrari.....No one would own a perfect diamond...

In the "Market" there is always, always always, always, room at the top. If that is not true, then what's the point of striving always to be better, to improve......

For that matter, and I say this humbly, no one would pay my prices. So, Where d'you want to go?

[Danno44]

I believe that if price is the objection someone is battling with all the time then there is more than a pricing issue going on in the business.

[brian.austin]

Originally Posted by heartseye

Ah Julio......if that were true then nobody would drive a Porsche....or a Rolls or a Ferrari.....No one would own a perfect diamond...

In the "Market" there is always, always always, always, room at the top. If that is not true, then what's the point of striving always to be better, to improve......

For that matter, and I say this humbly, no one would pay my prices. So, Where d'you want to go?

I see circular logic here, Bob.

You've made a point of saying that you see no need to know what others in the area are charging and set your prices based on your own costs and formula. Then you state that your prices are in the Porsche/Ferrari category.

How would you know if you didn't know what others are charging? How did you determine that you're at the top?

And I agree, there is ALWAYS room at the top. The key here is how much business "the top" can generate. Where I grew up, I suspect less than 1% can afford a $10,000 wedding photographer. Maybe. Another 10% could get into the $7-9K range. And maybe 25% can do $5K. That might be stretching it.

Where I'm at now, a $5,000 wedding photographer isn't unreasonable for good quality images with a fairly comprehensive package. Paying $10,000 for an award winning photographer could easily be handled by 5-7% of the market.

The top got bigger based on local demographics.

Without understanding what your local market can support, you may end up pricing yourself OUT of the market. Sure, you'll get a hit now and then. But I'd rather get 25 weddings a year for $4,000/each than 2-3 weddings a year at $10,000.

And rates should change based on market changes, both on competition and customer base. If 10 photographers pretty much own a market and two drop out due to moving or whatever...the demand for the remaining 8 photographers just got greater if the customer base hasn't changed. And if those 10 photographers were joined by 10 more, the demand got smaller for EACH photographer. Rates have to reflect these changes.

Now, taking it a step beyond that, referrals, experience, awards, etc., will alter the rate change frequencies. Even if 20 photographers now occupy a market where 10 were previously, a single photographer with awards from the local press, kudos from brides, etc., is going to dominate the market and be able to set the top rate.

[Nikonfreak]

Originally Posted by heartseye

Ah Julio......if that were true then nobody would drive a Porsche....or a Rolls or a Ferrari.....No one would own a perfect diamond...

In the "Market" there is always, always always, always, room at the top. If that is not true, then what's the point of striving always to be better, to improve......

For that matter, and I say this humbly, no one would pay my prices. So, Where d'you want to go?

A big difference. I didn't say that there wasn't room at the top (someone coined that gem of a phrase a long time ago), nor did I say that the proper marketing mix, target market selection and marketing strategy wasn't important. It most assuredly is. After all, you won't do well by setting up a Ferrari dealership in a red light district.

I was pointing out marketing mistakes made by those that "thought" they drove the market. Very few players truly "drive" the market or dictate the terms of the marketplace. One must be soberingly aware of what consumers will consider to be near perfect substitutes. In today's market, differentiation is one of the biggest keys to success. Figure out how you can make yourself different from the pack in a way that people are willing to pay a premium to obtain your services and you will be well on your way to a resoundingly successful business.



Julio

[brice]

The OP clearly isn't going to for the top of the market. If he was, my advice would be different.

Based on his description of what he is trying to do and why he is trying to do it he should look at what others are charging for similar work in his area and set his prices in the ballpark, to start. When he becomes an artist and his work demands a higher price, he can raise it.

Or shoot crap, charge a fortune and be called a starving artist. I'm sure his work would be invaluable when he dies in that instance.

Originally Posted by acigarnut

Hi all:

This may have been discussed earlier, but I showed a friend at work some 8x10's I printed and was planning on putting a few in my kids rooms as "art".

She indicated that she would put all 4 pictures in her kitchen and wanted to buy some from me. The question is: what do you charge for an 8x10 of flowers? I didn't spend a ton of time in setup on these, nor did I do a lot of editing. A semi-pro friend of mine charges $25 for an 8x10. I am no where near as good, and do not have "sittings" with flowers/birds, etc. I was thinking of $15 for an 8x10. I am GUESSING I have $2 of materials in the pic (ink and paper).

If someone comes up to me and says: My kid loves boats, can you take one of an old ship? For "work" like that I would charge the $25.

ANY thoughts are appreciated!!!!

Thanks.

Andy

[heartseye]

Originally Posted by brian.austin

I see circular logic here, Bob.

You've made a point of saying that you see no need to know what others in the area are charging and set your prices based on your own costs and formula. Then you state that your prices are in the Porsche/Ferrari category.

How would you know if you didn't know what others are charging? How did you determine that you're at the top?

And I agree, there is ALWAYS room at the top. The key here is how much business "the top" can generate. Where I grew up, I suspect less than 1% can afford a $10,000 wedding photographer. Maybe. Another 10% could get into the $7-9K range. And maybe 25% can do $5K. That might be stretching it.

Where I'm at now, a $5,000 wedding photographer isn't unreasonable for good quality images with a fairly comprehensive package. Paying $10,000 for an award winning photographer could easily be handled by 5-7% of the market.

The top got bigger based on local demographics.

Without understanding what your local market can support, you may end up pricing yourself OUT of the market. Sure, you'll get a hit now and then. But I'd rather get 25 weddings a year for $4,000/each than 2-3 weddings a year at $10,000.

And rates should change based on market changes, both on competition and customer base. If 10 photographers pretty much own a market and two drop out due to moving or whatever...the demand for the remaining 8 photographers just got greater if the customer base hasn't changed. And if those 10 photographers were joined by 10 more, the demand got smaller for EACH photographer. Rates have to reflect these changes.

Now, taking it a step beyond that, referrals, experience, awards, etc., will alter the rate change frequencies. Even if 20 photographers now occupy a market where 10 were previously, a single photographer with awards from the local press, kudos from brides, etc., is going to dominate the market and be able to set the top rate.

lol, Brian.....even without knowing the price, EVERYONE can tell a Ferrari from a Pinto....Honestly...I truly pay no attention to what others are doing as far as prices are concerned. If we all sold IDENTICAL products and services, price would be of great importance............but no-one can create what I create except me....and the same is true for you too......so as the end products are varied, why should the prices not be varied too?

[Nikonfreak]

Excellent discussions.

Pricing is one of those things that is so very difficult to structure in this business. It's good to see other's perspectives and what they do with their own work. Great thread folks.

When you first get started, you're nervous about every quote that goes out and every job you price. That's normal. It's also normal to feel as though you might be too high. Don't worry about someone saying "no". It happens. You don't get every job you quote.

Mark had a pretty good analogy on this with his pricing structure in that he quotes a wedding package moderately, one high, and one where he wouldn't expect anyone to take it. When folks do take the top package, it's time to raise the price.

It's happened to me for some concert work. I started pricing low to get in because folks didn't want to take a chance with a new guy and after a while of getting established, raised my pricing by more than triple. I lost a few clients, but gained a few really good ones.

I'm surprised no one has spoken to price being equated with quality in the mind of the consumer. This is one form of marketing strategy. "If it costs more, it must be good / better".

Julio

[CI Photography]

Originally Posted by riha

The problem i see today is the fact that cameras are so good today (and printers) that most people have the chance to take an good image and sell it or print it for private usage.

Oh no. Someone else thinks the Camera makes the photo and not the Photographer.

I guess when they build the right camera, we're out of work.




Joe

[Danno44]

Wouldn't a business plan accomplish the concerns addressed? Location, competition capablilities inculding pricing, region, economic conditions, costs, margins, addressing your target customers, etc...Once these issues are addressed pricing should take care of itself.
I think changing pricing without utilizing a detail analysis into consideration could potentially lead to problems.
Dan

[jfrancho]

Oh no. Someone else thinks the Camera makes the photo and not the Photographer.

No, I don't think that is what this meant. It is pretty easy to learn how take a decent picture these days, much easier than even ten years ago.

[CI Photography]

LOL. I was joking.





Joe

[Danlphot]

Marketing guru Charles Lewis claims that 99.9% of professional photographers are charging too little for their work and if fewer that 2/3 of your clients are complaining about your prices, then it's time to raise them. Higher prices will get you a more cooperative and more appreciative clientele.

Dan

[gatrump05]

Alison, love your B&W's

[Steve Buchanan]

figuring your cost of doing business is one of the first things you should do when starting you business and is something you need to re visit on a regular basis. Actual direct expenses are only part of the total costs for doing any particular job. One area a lot of people fall down on figuring your codb is forgetting to include their time. Of course photography is not a commodity but to use the manufacturing analogy, labor is often the largest component of the production costs. Even if it's only you on production, that still needs to be figured in.

As far as picking the market... Good luck. If you're in a small town or in a crowded field you have to adjust accordingly. Finding the right market segment to market to and work with is a lifetime project.

SB