Help Please...

[Michele]

Hello everyone!

As part of my photography, I do shoot local shows of people riding their horses and then sell prints to them afterwards.* However, I was just asked by a friend of mine if I would be interested to shoot one of his clients (his clients horses) at a show that is an hour away from me.* This is totally different for me and am not sure how to charge him. I haven't talked to the person yet, as I don't want to till I have an idea of how to charge.* Any suggestions as I don't want to overcharge or undercharge* How do you charge something like this?

Thank you...
Michele

[dmacgee]

You'll meed to cover your travel expenses plus make sure you're guaranteed some sales. Also you don't mention if its an exclusive shoot or if you're free to shoot other people and horses to try to sell to the people there.

I've its exclusive you still may want to take samples of your work and get some business cards made up. Don't sell yourself short talk to the client and find out their expectations if there are other equinie photographers nearby ask them what their fees are (or look for websites).

You may want to draft a contract so you at least cover your expenses.

Good Luck!

[Mr. Pickles]

Ut ohh, your getting into deep stuff now

Dmacgee has good advice for ya already. When I do it, I go and cover my own way (I haven't gone more than 2hrs away, yet). I do take business cards, and check to see if other photogs will be wherever. If not, I shoot whatever is interesting, but work on whomever asked me to shoot them, if that is the case. Like at a baseball or softball game, if the person I am suppose to be there to shoot is on the bench in between innings, I shoot the other players.

I then post the good images on my SmugMug account (search for other links here on it, and if you join, enter this code L5xvhn5DEtHqs in the 'Referred by' field on the signup form to get $5 off your subscription), and charge accordingly for the different size prints they can buy. After you upload the images, and tell them what the site address is, you pretty much done. For some of my events, I have charged $2 per 4x6, and go up from there for bigger sizes.

Since i do it as a hobby, and gauge the interest level of the folks there, the prices per event change, and I usually get more than my travel back. I'm not gonna buy a new body off my profit, but I have bought stuff with it

[Michele]

Thank you both for your input. Ive got some thinking to do on this one and to figure things out. I usually always carry a small photo album of prints (about 10 in there) to show and carry business cards. I just wasn't sure how to go about charging the client who is asking for photos for me being there since I am going there just for him. I do know that he definitely wants photos and the person who referred him to me, knows him very well and is serious when it comes to asking. If that makes sense. So I know I am not getting into a sticky position here. if it was a stranger or what not, then I would be leary.

Michele

[bevilaquafoto]

I know that many people on this board are used to making money by doing the shoot for nothing and selling the prints. That can be a good way to make money, but if someone asks you directly, i.e. wants to commission a shoot from you, then in my opinion, the best thing to do is to charge a reasonable creative fee which takes into consideration the amount of time you will be spending, how the client will be using the photos, the complexity of the shoot and then, finally, the expenses. It sounds like the person you will be shooting this for is using the photos for personal purposes rather than using them for publication, or advertising use. Particularly if you are relativcely new to shooting on a for-profit basis I might suggest charging a fee of $150, to $250.00 depending upon the amount of time involved, number of images, etc. This is provided that the person is not using the images for commercial purposes. I would strongly suggest negotiating the expenses in advance. Things to keep in mind about expenses....how will you get there? What expenses are involved in getting there? Do they want film or digital? Do they want a CD, and contact sheet? How will you eat when you are there? Will they cover lunch?

I realize that this all sounds like alot for a simple shoot, but you want to be careful not to shortchange yourself. If the person you are shooting for has the ability to recommend you to other horse owners, you might want to cut him/her a break on the fee if they are willing to pass your name along. I will OCCASIONALLY charge one client less in exchange for steady work, or passing my name around. You have to be careful with this, though as I have gotten burned this way on occasion. You also then have the images for your portfolio, and should definitely carry business cards with you as people ALWAYS ask me for business cards when they see me shooting. While I get a fair amount of work through self-promotion, I get even more by word of mouth. Just being in the right place at the right time can be a tremendous help. Please feel free to write back if I can be of any assistance. I apologize for the long post.

[Michele]

Thank you sooooooo much for your post/info/advice, etc. It is very much appreciated and reallyhelpful. I don't mind the long post at all. Its all good info and just what I needed to hear.

I do several horse shows in my town (Dressage Shows) on my own time, edit on my own time, but I make a good amount of money on just selling the prints, but this is totally different. I started doing the Dressage shows (5 a year) two years ago, I have done two private shoots, so you can see I am still getting my foot in the door slowly.

I just told my friend today that I would do it for him and so the client will be calling me soon and I just wanted to have some sort of idea on what to start negotiating with, etc. SO when this person calls me, I am planning to discuss the expenses then and come to an agreement of some kind before we go any further. Do I need to have any paper work involved here besides a bill and reciept?

I have a ton of business cards to give out and an album together if anyone wants to see prints.

I usually edit the photos and chose the best ones and post them on my site on a private page for them to view and purchase prints. That is my normal way of doing things. Is it okay to just go with digital or do I need to ask them what they want? I can do both but I prefer digital.

Thank you so much for your help!!

[bevilaquafoto]

Sometimes I have an actual contract with a client. Usually I just put a set of terms & conditions on the back of the invoice generally stating, among other things, the agreed upon usage, the copyright, etc. I think it would be enough to put the fact that the images are (C) Michele 2005, the images are for personal use only, and may not be reproduced for commercial purposes, etc. on the front of your invoice somewhere. It doesn't sound like your clients are going to be using these for anything other than personal memorabilia. If that is not the case, then you need to negotiate a better rate, and terms of usage. Your pictures are beautiful, by the way!

[Michele]

Thank you Lorenzo. I am actually as we speak updating and changing around my two Equestrian galleries as those pics are quite old. I am hoping to have it done before I talk to the client so I can give him my website to see the Equestrian photos.

Thanks again for your help. You have really helped me and put my mind at ease on this..

Michele

[bevilaquafoto]

No problem at all. Please let me know how it goes. Feel free to write if I can be of any further assistance!

[Michele]

Thank you and I will!!

[Michele]

Hi Lorenzo...

The shoot went well. I charged $200 to take the pictures, mileage, edit, website proofs. I feel that the price was fair and it was only 40 minutes from my house to the show and I was only there for about three hours in the morning. I did spend some extra time on the photos just because I wanted to. I had them all proofed and ready to go within a few hours after I got home, but I then took some and put together a montage, did a few examples of digital enhances, b/w, b/w with color, framing, and let them know those can be done to any of the photos of there choice for an extra fee. So we will see what they want. I haven't heard anything. When I called them to give them the link, they pulled them up online while I was still on the phone and they said they liked them. I wasn't all that pleased with them as I have produced better images in the past, but the lighting and angles were difficult to work with, so under the circumstances, I am somewhat pleased. Thank you for your help again..

[dmacgee]

Michelle,

Great to hear the shoot came together and it sounds like it went well. Hope it turns in to something for you.

Dave

[bevilaquafoto]

Congratulations, Michele! That's great! Did you get paid already? I think you will find that the more you do these, and the more success you have with them, that your name will begin to circulate. You could even make yourself a little promo piece in PhotoShop and put them up at the stables. It's very easy to do, and I can help you if you like. One of the best ways to get work as a photographer is to do what you love to do, and put your name out there. Even just by being seen shooting, you may attract people who will want to hire you to shoot them.

[dvdowns]

Just an interesting angle on comissioned photographs , worth checking on your local laws ... in New Zealand the photographer has rights to his photographs automatically , UNLESS he is comissioned to take pictures then the customer automatically has copyright of the pictures and can even sue the photographer for using the same style again in other work if the style was fairly unique to those pictures at the time . That is why many NZ photographers make the customer sign a contract that states that the photographer maintains copyright on all pictures taken .