release form - yes or no?

[daveyburt]

Hoping for help from some photo-legals...

So a friend of mine bought a restaurant/bar and asked that I take some photos for his business Facebook page (and maybe later on on his business website). I would be shooting inside his establishment during business hours. Patrons will be present.

If he is using these photos to promote his business on Facebook, would model releases be required of anyone who is recognizable in the images?

Does his restaurant qualify as a 'public place'? What are the legalities here?

Trying to keep this simple - Would a sign on the door saying photographs are being taken and by entering you agree to let a possible photo of you be used? (or something a bit more concise).

What is the easiest way to legally proceed here?

Thank you for anything you could offer on this topic.
-dave

[Mike_e]

I don't know the particular legalities here but it would be a really good idea.

Maybe pay everyone that signed a beer or an entree.

Not only would that take care of the legal portion but everyone there would have a part in the business' opening and might tend to feel a little loyalty towards it.

The owner might even want to have a photoshoot night. Pack the house to make it look better and make back the outlay in all the extra business they'd do.

[daveyburt]

"photoshoot night" - love it! -great idea!!! Then it would be ovbious.
karma inbound (if i can remember how to do it)

thanks!


Still curious of the legal stipulations.

[Bobby Deal]

Yes under the circumstances you put forth a model release should be obtained unless your friend enjoys spending his time talking with attornies.

The sign posted at the enterence is used by the television industry quote regularly and seems to hold up when one is presented in the background in an entertainment piece. Being in the background of a scene in a tv show does not put any individual into a position to be presumed to endorse a product. Putting them in the background of a commercial advertisement however does place them in a potential position of endorsement. So while a sign might be adequate I would not trust my future to "might"

Most people's ego and vanity would lead them to sign the release, providing free food or beverage or discounted at the least would further entice them to sign but the ego boost of being in an add in a local publication will get the bulk of the people.

[daveyburt]

Originally Posted by Bobby Deal

<Snip>...
Most people's ego and vanity would lead them to sign the release, providing free food or beverage or discounted at the least would further entice them to sign but the ego boost of being in an add in a local publication will get the bulk of the people.

That was my thought too - though you used much more thought out language. PPL love to be on facebook - lol.

Good to know that 'obvious' signage/advertisement holds up! I put myself in the judges position (though I'm obviously biased) and thought; Judgement for the defendant on the grounds that the plaintiff knew and had the choice to go elsewhere. But, hell, I'm sure no judge.


My thoughts at this point are, advertise it as photo night, offer the freebie and have them sign the paper. I just don't want to be to intrusive. This seems reasonable.

Anyone else ever do a similar thing (obviously my fist time), and what did you do to cover your butt?

I forgot how cool the Camel is. -thanks guys!!
-d

[Bobby Deal]

I would not use a sign post for a commercial photo shoot. It works for the tv industry because the consequences of beings non participating person in the background of a reality show are minimal to non existent. Not so with being a recognizable element in a print commercial advertisement that could imply your endorsement of the product and or service.

Do you stop and read every sign / poster you see when entering a venue? Simply saying you did not see the sign could sway the judge the other way

[daveyburt]

learning a lot here Bobby - thank you...

Does it make a difference if I don't use particular patron a model and just a general shots around the property? That was my original plan. Knowing there are legalaties, my concern was something like catching a federal witness protectness enrolle in a shot. (half joking). - Just trying to cover my and his rear end.

My plan wasn't to ask for endorsements/focus on patrons, but to just shoot the building with ppl in it. I'd probably ask the employees (wait/bar staff) to feature them in a shot but, I'm not hesitant to ask them to sign the release.

again - thank you!
-d

[daveyburt]

i think i skimmed over Bobby's statement here: - just re-read it...
"Putting them in the background of a commercial advertisement however does place them in a potential position of endorsement. "

geeze - i'm obviously illustrating some naivety here but, ppl are that money hungry? - "oh, look...I happen to be in that picture. I'm gunna sue the guy."??

my rating of society has just fallen another notch.
:/ <sigh>

I tell myself I understand we're "sue happy", and I believe what you've said Bobby....but, I just can't believe a little mom and pops resturaunt has to jump through all these hoops to take some pix.

I figured I'd help out my friend of 20 years, and get a little real life photo practice at the same time - holy legal boondoggle batman.

-obvious noob here...

rediculous
-d

[Bobby Deal]

Originally Posted by daveyburt

i think i skimmed over Bobby's statement here: - just re-read it...
"Putting them in the background of a commercial advertisement however does place them in a potential position of endorsement. "

geeze - i'm obviously illustrating some naivety here but, ppl are that money hungry? - "oh, look...I happen to be in that picture. I'm gunna sue the guy."??

my rating of society has just fallen another notch.
:/ <sigh>

I tell myself I understand we're "sue happy", and I believe what you've said Bobby....but, I just can't believe a little mom and pops resturaunt has to jump through all these hoops to take some pix.

I figured I'd help out my friend of 20 years, and get a little real life photo practice at the same time - holy legal boondoggle batman.

-obvious noob here...

rediculous
-d

I think you will find people more then willing to sign a release. It is a big ego boost to be able to tell ones friends they modeled for an add that all their friends will see. Offer them the feel good aspect and a free meal (everyone loves a free meal) and you won't have any difficulty lining unp enough people to fill the joint. A couple dozen plates of free food is significantly less expensive then hiring a couple dozen models. New business or old the owner should learn right out the gate that it costs money to advertise and market a business even when you have 20 year friendships to pull on to get the creative services for free. When business owners find they can get everything for free we all loose another potential client down the road because that owner will never want to spend a dime on creative services again. So help your friend out, get him a good deal but do yourself a favor and don't make the whole job cost free to him. In the end that is a situation you will likely regret.

[daveyburt]

Thanks man!

Yea, he knows things cost money. Of course I will treat him well but, he knows my time is worth something and I have to eat too.


I still have all the food and drinks to shoot so, the night time patron shoot is still a ways off.

Another option is to fill the place with all his family and friends (I'm sure he could). That would be less stressful for me to shoot too, as I know most of them.

Thank you for all the info - very grateful.
-dave