Oh, call me naive - I didn't realize this was going on!

[Rain Lily]

Originally Posted by wdesigndeb

It has really turned into that, hasn't it? But that wasn't the intention to begin with. I was just wondering how much impact the pros thought this was having on the industry.

lol. It turns into this every time

I honestly do think there has been some kind of impact, but if it's a negative one on someone's business, then I think the answer isn't complaining, which is super popular on the Camel - instead, I would think the answer would be to take what people want and make it better by using good photographic techniques.

Customers are blown away by the feelings they get from an image, not by the technicalities. So if you have a mom who loves backlit, sunshiney images with sun flares (like me, I adore that stuff), then take that and make it fit with better backlighting and more attractive poses, and customize your techniques to fit what the masses want.

But name calling and bitterness doesn't change anything or do anyone any good.

There's my 2 cents! That and $5 should get you some Starbuck's

[Rain Lily]

Originally Posted by korman

Or option 3, they spend to much time cleaning up the mess left behind by said professionals. People do not judge of a tree by its leaves, or bark, or flowers, but by the fruit.

Korman

Cleaning up what mess, Korman? If you're talking weddings, then I'll bow out, but I've never had to clean up anyone's mess around here and there are a lot of 'photographers' around, more all the time.

[photolando]

"I read it on a forum so it must be true!!"

Consider the source folks. People on forums can say anything they want. What they actually do in real life is usually far from it.

"I charge $1,000 a day!" Great, what do you actually get? lol

What you say you make, in a forum, again, is usually not what they really get.

I work a lot. I know a lot of the local pros. Trust me, the market is waaaaay down. So all these "newbies" claiming they are shooting all the time and making great money is really a load of bull.

No business makes great money with no marketing or sales skills. I don't care if they own an arsenal of D4's with every lens Nikon makes. Doesn't give them any business skills. That's what it takes to make money. Actually, it's the only thing. You don't even need to own a camera or even know how to shoot to make money with photography.

Take everything you read on a forum with a huge grain of salt.

[wdesigndeb]

Thanks for the insight Mike. I talked to a pro I know just the other day and she commented that bookings were really down this year, she was considering looking for a 9 to 5 to get her through.

[KA_Style]

Originally Posted by photolando

No business makes great money with no marketing or sales skills. I don't care if they own an arsenal of D4's with every lens Nikon makes. Doesn't give them any business skills. That's what it takes to make money. Actually, it's the only thing. You don't even need to own a camera or even know how to shoot to make money with photography.

Bingo. The reality is the "photos" really have nothing to do with the photography business.. Its knowing business and marketing. Tons of eh products will sell all day, even something crappy/cheap because the seller knows business and how to market the product.



What I hate is photographers constantly complaining about other photographers.. working for cheap, etc.. I personally dont care about the ones that work for "cheap" , I dont care about the mommies.. because the ones that hire the "cheap" , the mommies with their kit lens they got to take pictures of their kids.. is not the client base I want.. work smarter not harder. Id rather shoot one wedding.. one session.. instead of 4 to make the money. Stop complaining and figure a way to make money instead of whining about it.

Im a firm believer in you get what you pay for..


Yes, its down this year. I did not book as many weddings this year as I did last.. I build websites, logos, and business cards to get me through..

[RV]

Originally Posted by photolando

"

No business makes great money with no marketing or sales skills. I don't care if they own an arsenal of D4's with every lens Nikon makes. Doesn't give them any business skills. That's what it takes to make money.

Some of us still have the love for art of photography, live a humble life, and don't thrive on making a killing in the photography business. My business skill is the same as my life skill. Enjoy life, the people in it, and always leave something better than when you arrived. My customer base is my friends, friends of friends, and so on. Word of mouth is the BEST marketing there is.... and it is free. In addition to being free, it also introduces me to many people who enrich my life as well as my growing experience.

If you were into business, and were successful of any magnitude, I don't think you would be in photography, well unless you were CEO of glamour shots of some Mall based portrait studio. There are very few millionaires that are photographers, well unless your into porn

[KA_Style]

Originally Posted by OrionPhotograph

If you were into business, and were successful of any magnitude, I don't think you would be in photography, well unless you were CEO of glamour shots of some Mall based portrait studio. There are very few millionaires that are photographers, well unless your into porn

Depends on the magnitude of successful to you as I dont need to be a millionaire to be successful or to make a great living. I am into business, very much so.. my own, that makes me happy not millions. I make a living doing photography, times get tight but Im only a few years in, my payoff will be in a couple years when Im branded into the community more.

Successful to me is being happy, making a living doing something you love, I feel absolutely jobless. As much as its a business for me I love to shoot, I love its all mine. I get what you are saying as I still love it for the art. Im artistic in many mediums, Im very artsy fartsy lol but photography is my calling so here I am! Photography came very natural to me. I get to pay my bills with something I love to do.. Its so awesome.

[Phileas Fogg]

SOME FREE ADVICE!

Just remember folks, all you MWAC and similar types who think that shiny new DSLR and lens qualifies you to take on any paid photography gig, high priced or more likely low buck.

1: You risk a lawsuit one day by a disgruntled client and since you are your (cough cough) business they cannot only just go after any business assets and cash but your personal assets and cash to claim a winning lawsuit for them. Unless you set up a legitimate business ( sole proprietor MUST have liability insurance to help from being bankrupted by a lawsuit ) or better a Ltd. company with all proper insurance. Failing to do so, your are the business and that $500 shoot and burn wedding etc. may cost you thousands of $$$ one day.

2: Your friendly TAX MAN! If you are not claiming the income (I'm near 100% certain you low buck MWAC and similar shooters are not) you make even on them low buck $500 or so shoot and burn sessions/weddings the Tax Man may commeth one day and likely a day you did not expect and he WILL GET HIS $$$.



There is nothing wrong with pursuing a photography career and business but there are reasons why long standing rules, guidelines and systems are set in place. By being Miss Missy Shortcut MWAC etc. you may not in the end reap the joy and the $$$ you think your should get.

[wdesigndeb]

Absolutely right! I don't know much about the U.S. taxman, but I know our guy sure isn't far away.

[jerryph]

Originally Posted by wdesigndeb

Just curious to hear your opinion. Do you think people like this are having a big effect on the industry? or do you think they are out of business so fast that it doesn't matter?

I feel for you pros.....

Nah... live and let live. As long as what you do doesn't hurt someone, go do your thing.

In the end, if I am the one working my butt off and someone else wants to make all their photos look the same via presets, I say great... because they make the choice between me and them to my customers that much easier... lol

Do they hurt the industry? Maybe, but I prefer to focus on me instead of them.

About the only place I am really sensitive about is newbs doing weddings... that gets me aggressive REAL fast... lol