For Tixeon

[nldunne]

T W

I have to agree with you my approach is unconventional, but the more I use it, the more I like it for accuracy. I like being able to note what VALUE a part of my image gave me on location and try - at least - to match it when I get home.

I wonder if AA did something like that with the ZONE SYSTEM.

I am able to enlarge my working canvas to 999% - so I can bring in my two grey parts for matching very well as I make my match - especially if I use a medium to high DPI setting on my work file to start.

As for Anne in the library, I do not mind the colour version too. I prefer the softer skin it shows more than some harsh skin in some instances. That, however, is just me.

[nldunne]

T W

Here is the reverse side of the GRAY SCALE & VALUE FINDER CARD.

it is mainly for painters, but I have adapted it for use with the cam.

[nldunne]

T W

Even foggy weather can benefit from working with the GRAY SCALE CARD. I worked on the cement dividers in the bottom left. The b/w is a tad soft due to the weather conditions.

In this one, I enlarged the canvas to get a good sized area just around the G S card and cement divider in the b/w matching. That enlarging does make a difference to help me see better how/when the grey tones match.

[Tixeon]

Originally Posted by nldunne

T W

I have to agree with you my approach is unconventional, but the more I use it, the more I like it for accuracy. I like being able to note what VALUE a part of my image gave me on location and try - at least - to match it when I get home.

I wonder if AA did something like that with the ZONE SYSTEM.

I am able to enlarge my working canvas to 999% - so I can bring in my two grey parts for matching very well as I make my match - especially if I use a medium to high DPI setting on my work file to start.

As for Anne in the library, I do not mind the colour version too. I prefer the softer skin it shows more than some harsh skin in some instances. That, however, is just me.

Norm; I'm not sure what Ansel used in the beginning (I'll check his book later) but this (below) was later developed specifically for the Zone System. It's a narrow angle spot meter - see the little dot in the circle view window. The gray scale is a little faded but it still works (I think) if I could find a battery....tw

[Tixeon]

Originally Posted by nldunne

T W

Here is the reverse side of the GRAY SCALE & VALUE FINDER CARD.

it is mainly for painters, but I have adapted it for use with the cam.

Norm; I must be slipping because I've never seen anything like that locally. I'm somewhat known for using an item for something other than what it was designed for. I think it's a great idea & very innovative....tw

[Tixeon]

Norm; In Ansel Adams book "The Negative" fourth printing 1968, he was using a Weston Master meter with a dial that looked almost exactly like the one in my photo. I can't find any info on what he was using for his very early work......tw

[nldunne]

T W

We are just in from morning services. My thanks for visiting.

As for A A - I wonder - but not at all certain - if he used one of those PENTAX or similar 1 or 3 degree hand held spot meters? They may newer than that - I just forget when they first appreared. Or maybe he first used a trusty Grey Card - I am not certain either. I hope you can find a battery some place for your Weston.

As for the artist's Gray Scale - I bought that locally - in a suppled art (painter's) store. It is a regular stocked item last time I was in. Also, they are on line at the company web site - COLOR WHEEL COMPANY. If you have a well stock art(painters) store in your area - they may have it - or can order one. They are less than $5. Cdn - so in the U S - should be fairly reasonable. The grey tones are not an exact match to the ZONE SYSTEM, but serve my purposes well enough.

Like you - I tend to 'jury rig' things rather than buy them - whenever I can.

My thanks again for your responses - I love to share ideas like these back and forth.

Have a good week ahead.

[nldunne]

T W

Last June - on our Alaskan cruise - I "borrowed" a table napkin from the dining room for a light reflector. It is white clolth and makes an excellent reflector. It was still clipped on a reflector - I made earlier of various materials - when I came home. I have dull side cooking foil, gold material similar to the dull side cooking foil for warming up an image, the cloth - on a piece of cardboard 13 or so inches square. It is light and portable.

In our haste to go off ship when we came home, I "forgot" to leave it in the room.

Thlis image is done with the cloth lightening up the subject's right cheek area. I based my VALUE match on the skin of the RIGHT CHEEK. The bright light from the sun and reflector and cabin balcony wall made her squint.

This is one of my 'jury rig' jobs.

[Rense]

It is beleived that he used SEI spotmeters
Later on these got modified(amongst them the pentax ones) for the zone system.
He also used Weston lightmeters (and made the brand famous).
here is a must read on the ZS

[nldunne]

My thanks for the info. I have that simple Zone System Page and other like it in my Fav's list.

I went through all that in my film days. Since downsizing, I am trying to stay strictly with studying artistic composition and use the artist's Gray Scale to fine tune the images a bit.

[nldunne]

T W

Here is a link on the Zone System with many other links on the side and in the written material as well.
A simplified zone system for making good exposures

[nldunne]

T W

Here is one of the hardest examples to get anything reasonably decent. It was all done by existing light only.

As I sit back at my Station Point and study this - I am able to see a bit of a painting look in it.

I used the bright patch on the man's forehead - just above the glasses - as my base.
I made my dpi to 300 @ 9 X 12 on my work copy and then enlarged the Gray Scale and Grey patch to a good size for reasonable matching.

After that, I was able to use the Sharpening Tool to see
1) how - when I moved the slider - my VALUE on the Gray Scale changed - so I could keep it at my proper match.
2) how - in the blur side - I was able to remove NOISE - even a tad.

[k9ofkaos]

Interesting read Norm. The sunset one you posted is awesome.

I bought an old press camera once that used 4 x 5 negatives and played around with the zone system. (I had a Pentax spotmeter then) and the results I got were far and away better than what I could get with 35 mm. I guess you could expand or contract 35 mm negatives, but you have to do it on the whole roll as opposed to sheet film.

[nldunne]

MoJo

My thanks for the kind words.

This system is the best I have tried. Those Old Graphic's were a real classic as were the quality of the images. As for the film - yes - a whole roll had to be done the same way. That is why I like digi - as it like sheet film - 1 frame at a time.

Stop by more often and share some ideas.

[k9ofkaos]

Originally Posted by nldunne

MoJo

My thanks for the kind words.

This system is the best I have tried. Those Old Graphic's were a real classic as were the quality of the images. As for the film - yes - a whole roll had to be done the same way. That is wfhy I like digi as it like sheet film - 1 frame at a time.

Stop by more often ands share some ideas.

Norm I really feel like I've grown stagnant this past year so I ordered a bunch of books and have read a few of them. I have never done B/W in digital because I never could get the tonality and contrast like I like it, but one of the books I read showed me that I have been doing a lot of things wrong so hopefully soon I'll contribute some images on this board (except pictures of red heads. They must remain in color.)

[nldunne]

MoJo

Welcome, Mate, to the B/W group!

My suggestion is - to visit an art supply shop and find a G S/V F Card. They are worth their weight in gold and are small - yet very versatile. To me they have given me the best results - like the ones I have posted in this thread. Working with my VALUES on my GRAY SCALE/VALUE FINDER CARD is a bit like working with the ZONES in the ZONE SYSTEM - at least to me.

[nldunne]

T W

These images were done at 300 dpi @ 2400 X 3600 pixels to start on the work file.
Both were taken as is with the cam on ALL AUTOMATIC - Straight from the Box Setting.

Anne's - inside a cafe - in our local Market - was in a dark corner. Working with the Gray Scale Card on the brightest part of the image (her hand that was cropped - too close to the cam) was the base for the Gray Tones match. We like the image like this. I have painting reproductions that are darker than this - done by Rembrandt among others.

Norm's - just outside the cafe Anne was in - was done with the brightest part of my skin as the base for the gray tones match. That turned out not too bad either. We like the warm tones on the face here - something a flash would not give.

We like both without a flash as well.

Sitting back at my Station Point - I really like Anne's image - dark as it is. This has a ' warm feeling' to it - that a flash could not give.

[Tixeon]

Originally Posted by nldunne

T W

Here is a link on the Zone System with many other links on the side and in the written material as well.
A simplified zone system for making good exposures

Norm; I did some research on this recently & read this & many other articles till my eyes hurt. Most of it was very informative.

35 years ago I started earning my living with color photography. Way over 1000 weddings, too many High School Seniors to remember, & hundreds of family groups & misc other stuff &, I now have a confession to make.....I used (and still occasionally do) Incident Meters by Minolta. The pace was too fast for any type of spot metering. The Incident meters give me perfect exposures for color negs or digital every time, with nary a blown highlight or blocked up shadow area. I find the Zone System knowledge most useful with the auto metering of digital cameras. Just look for an area of about zone V brightness & meter on that - gives results similar to Incident metering........tw

[nldunne]

T W

Thanks for visiting.

Working with tones in the mid range is what I try to do - if I have one available. Anne's cam is not set up to meter in the conventional way. I can only change the EV setting or ISO and the cam does everything else.

That is why I work with the G S & V F Card on here to give me some control of my images. I loved using incident when I was in my film days, though.

I - am not and was not - a pro now or at any time before. I learned all I know by myself by trial and error and through the study of Old Masters and similar High End Artists. The images I did today give me a small feeling of having that painting feel to them - especially Anne - being dark - like something that Rembrandt may have done.

I have always been a slow, somewhat careful worker most times. Speed - in and for images - was not for me - then or now.

I think - from today's images - that I will keep working with the system I have. Unconventional, yes - but still the best for Anne's cam.

Best wishes. Will talk soon.

[Tixeon]

Norm; As I said before, you're making what you have work & that's admirable & all that counts. Keep at it.....tw